VRR flicker tested, is there an OLED that doesn't have it? Do IPS and VA have it? Does vesa Adaptive Sync prevent it?

[Grim5]

The to all the questions is No

Rtings now test for VRR flicker and are the only ones doing so. They've done 25 monitors at first

Link below to the full testing results, but the summary is that:

* All OLEDs have VRR flicker, but all are not the same, some monitors are much worse than others.

* IPS and VA also have VRR flicker, but it is almost unnoticeable in IPS in general, while VA is in between and depending on the monitor, VA can flicker as bad as OLED

* Gsync/Adaptive Sync/Freesync does not prevent flicker

For the test, Rtings runs content, such as a game and has the system frequently changing the framerate from equalling the monitors max refresh, to 10hz under the max and switching between the two - for example a 120hz monitor would be tested by rapidly changing from 120fps to 110fps and flicker is defined by changes in the screens output brightness during this change in framerate

VRR Flicker Problem In Monitors: Six Popular Gaming OLEDs All Have This Issue

OLED flickering while gaming has been a known issue for several years now; any moment when a game experiences an unstable or erratic frame rate, owners of expensive OLEDs see periodic flashes or flicker.

www.rtings.com

 

[Rroff]

* Gsync/Adaptive Sync/Freesync does not prevent flicker

I assume this is G-Sync compatible as the often derided module is designed to avoid these issues though you do get very low framerate flicker still.

VESA VRR is still just modifying technologies never designed for the purpose to make it work.

 

[Sc00p007]

Would like to see the aw3423dw in that list as some people told me that the dw had less flicker than the dwf due to the gsync module

 

[Grim5]

For those who say they've never seen it

 

[Nexus18]

Would like to see the aw3423dw in that list as some people told me that the dw had less flicker than the dwf due to the gsync module

Yup would be good to see this too although I think the flicker seen with freesync is a different kind of flicker that what is shown with oled vrr flicker. Also would be interesting to see different refresh rates impact on this e.g. with aw 34dw people say there is less flicker at 144hz but since the fw update, 175hz solved the noticeable flickering on dark grey scenes for me.

 

[heman]

Would this be dependent on pixel response time? If so, aren't OLEDs the fastest at this?

 

[D3K]

I don't notice flicker visually, but this might explain why I get occasional eye strain when on gaming on the TV but not when watching standard media. Occasionally happens on DW as well, but not as much.

 

[Freddie1980]

I've experienced this on my Gigabyte AORUS FI27Q expect I get on the desktop/idle as well. I've run with the monitor with VRR/Freesync turned off for over a year now and I won't be in rush to turn it back on.

 

[Phixsator]

There is an solution to the problem. Raise the floor of the VRR range. My IPS panel will flicker madly if framerate is to erratic(it never is but in a controlled environment the problem shows itself). Raising the VRR floor to 70hz from 48hz(just under half of the native refresh of 144hz) forces LFC to kick in much earlier and removes the flicker issues completely. The downside is increased input latency for the frames that fall under 70. Sadly I haven't been able to do this when I'm running Linux but it works just fine using CRU on windows.

 

[no_1_dave]

There is an solution to the problem. Raise the floor of the VRR range. My IPS panel will flicker madly if framerate is to erratic(it never is but in a controlled environment the problem shows itself). Raising the VRR floor to 70hz from 48hz(just under half of the native refresh of 144hz) forces LFC to kick in much earlier and removes the flicker issues completely. The downside is increased input latency for the frames that fall under 70. Sadly I haven't been able to do this when I'm running Linux but it works just fine using CRU on windows.

That or set a frame rate cap...
The problem is people don't wanna take measures to limit the VRR flicker, they would rather complain about it.

It's been mentioned many times that it can be almost stopped completely by just limiting the frame rate closer to your average frame rate on a game by game basis. But most people want to just plug in their OLED and play expecting it to work like their old IPS screen. The fact is, if you want to benefit from the much higher IQ that OLED provides you need to do some extra tinkering to overcome the areas OLED struggles.

 

[Rroff]

Neither of those solutions sounds like anything other than very less than ideal.

 

[stooeh]

Only ever noticed the flickering when frame rate is fluctuating a lot like on dark loading screens so not really found it an issue. I'm not sure rapidly changing frame rate deliberately is a good test. It's also described with ambiguity:
'we do this by dropping the frame rate to 10Hz from maximum refresh at 100ms intervals' I took this to mean 10Hz-120hz on a 120Hz screen but Grim5 took it to mean 110Hz-120Hz.

I would think the former would certainly have flicker on my LG C2 but not so sure about the latter. I did have a program some time ago that did similar rapid frame rate changes to show VRR flicker - very noticeable on my OLED but my old TN was not affected

 

[Sc00p007]

I think Oled is great, 1st screen around 8yr ago. Imo vrr flicker is a problem that hasn't been talked about enough by the reviewers, and now popularity is through the roof there are a few surprised out there.
How much you notice it depends on your set up + game + your eye sensivity. Manifesting in some seeing it a lot more than others. Maybe now you are playing games on an upper tier machine that runs next to native, no problem. 2yr down the line haven't upgraded and more demanding games are out. Now vrr flicker will start to be an issue.
As much as I feel it gets down played with easy solutions, I suspect if a manufacturer releases an oled that is confirmed to have fixed the vrr flicker, it would become top choice for many.

Another issue never mentioned, which is directly linked to this issue: if your machine is mid tier and you game at a smooth 4k 60 average, your near black won't flicker but it will be permanently raised. Perceivable to the eye.

 

[Baddass]

Correction to the OP, the flicker test they are introducing is an extreme use-case designed to be more like a torture test, with the frame rate fluctuating massively between 10fps (10Hz) and the monitor's maximum refresh rate. While it’s great they are introducing some form of testing here, and something that’s repeatable, I would advise caution before jumping to conclusions based purely on this test scenario.

How realistic a scenario is a massive swing from 10Hz, to say 360Hz?! If you experience that in real use I’d suggest you’ve got bigger problems than the flicker

running tests that are the absolute worst case example you can create, with the most extreme test scenarios will identify whether it’s possible to cause the screen to flicker at all, but they won’t tell you whether it’s likely to flicker during normal, relatable uses. It’s very hard to draw conclusions about whether a screen is likely to flicker during normal usage based on these tests. You can tell if it’s possible to cause it to flicker at all, in the most extreme examples, but not whether that’s likely to affect your normal usage.

I’m not denying it’s a problem in some situations, as it clearly is. But these test situations are too extreme in my opinion

 

[Phixsator]

That or set a frame rate cap...
The problem is people don't wanna take measures to limit the VRR flicker, they would rather complain about it.

It's been mentioned many times that it can be almost stopped completely by just limiting the frame rate closer to your average frame rate on a game by game basis. But most people want to just plug in their OLED and play expecting it to work like their old IPS screen. The fact is, if you want to benefit from the much higher IQ that OLED provides you need to do some extra tinkering to overcome the areas OLED struggles.

I don't like to limit my FPS too much cause then the whole point of high refresh goes out the window. I'd rather just double the erratic frames that falls too low through LFC, after raising the VRR floor, as its usually a very small perceived hit to latency anyway. I don't see how OLED is any worse off than any other panel tech, outside of the potential burn in, in regards to flicker. I've seen VA be plagued with flicker and I've been through a bunch, IPS has been the same although less extreme flicker, again been through a bunch. To be fair the majority has been budget panels but I've seen some very disappointed results on premium panels as well so I don't think it's an "issue" you can buy yourself out off and this included Gsync(module) panels too.

I get the point though that it should be a plug and play experience. I don't fuss too much about as long as I can tinker my way out of it .

 

[lovelyhead]

Never ever had VRR flicker on my Alienware AW2721D and I am very sensitive to it. The GSync module is necessary to avoid it.

 

[Rroff]

Never ever had VRR flicker on my Alienware AW2721D and I am very sensitive to it. The GSync module is necessary to avoid it.

This is mostly an OLED issue - but the G-Sync module can be tuned to mitigate or avoid it in a way that VESA VRR/Adaptive Sync can not. The problem is most VRR implementations are simply reusing features like panel self refresh in a way never intended to make it work rather than being a ground up development like the G-Sync module.

 

[Phixsator]

This is mostly an OLED issue - but the G-Sync module can be tuned to mitigate or avoid it in a way that VESA VRR/Adaptive Sync can not. The problem is most VRR implementations are simply reusing features like panel self refresh in a way never intended to make it work rather than being a ground up development like the G-Sync module.

I've owned enough panels(TN, VA and IPS/PLS) to know it's not just an OLED issue. BTW would you be so kind and enlighten me to what options a Gsync module offers that an Adaptive Sync solution doesn't that can be used to mitigate/remove flicker?

 

[Rroff]

I've owned enough panels(TN, VA and IPS/PLS) to know it's not just an OLED issue. BTW would you be so kind and enlighten me to what options a Gsync module offers that an Adaptive Sync solution doesn't that can be used to mitigate/remove flicker?

In the context of this thread the issue is mostly an OLED one, there are issues with flicker with VRR/G-Sync especially at low frame rates and when crossing the LFC boundaries especially on poor implementations.

One of the things the G-Sync module has is the ability to dynamically control the pixel response which can be used to improve clarity and avoid situations which might induce flicker. (The module can also potentially control things like the backlight).

 

[Phixsator]

In the context of this thread the issue is mostly an OLED one, there are issues with flicker with VRR/G-Sync especially at low frame rates and when crossing the LFC boundaries especially on poor implementations.

One of the things the G-Sync module has is the ability to dynamically control the pixel response which can be used to improve clarity and avoid situations which might induce flicker. (The module can also potentially control things like the backlight).

If your referring to variable overdrive, then that is also possible with adaptive sync and the correct scaler. The sad part though is that very few adaptive sync screens are actually using it, maybe down to cost? I don't know.