You claim one engine is better than the other, yet you clearly don't know much about VTEC engines? Yeah, cool.
VTEC vs VVT
- Thread starter gillywibble
- Start date
You claim one engine is better than the other, yet you clearly don't know much about VTEC engines? Yeah, cool.
Hard to tell the difference between most systems really, many prefer vtec as the 'steps' are more noticeable and give that feeling off a bit of boost coming in whereas other systems while just as good (or better) often don't feel as exciting as the gains are gradual and thus not immediately distinguishable from the natural power curve.
The renault system is probably the most noticeable as it falls apart at the drop of a hat and seems engineered to go horribly wrong at every possible opportunity.
The renault system is probably the most noticeable as it falls apart at the drop of a hat and seems engineered to go horribly wrong at every possible opportunity.
Older VTEC is simply switching between two different cam profiles at a set RPM, and the one for additional power is found on DOHC engines.
There's then E-VTEC which is kind of the opposite - is designed for better economy, rather than better peak power.
Newer i-VTEC (as found in the K20 etc) also introduces cam phasing, which allows adjustment of the timing of the intake cam as well.
This means that the newer VTEC engines have a much smoother power delivery, and don't have the "kick" that is noticeable with the older DOHC engines.
Toyota's VVT does the cam phasing bit, and VVT-i adds the two cam profiles.
Many more manufacturers use variable valve timing via phasing or profiling, such as BMW's VANOS, Mitsubishi's MIVEC, Alfa Romeo's TwinSpark and even all of the Renault Clio Sport cars have variable valve timing - it's a common feature nowadays.
There's then E-VTEC which is kind of the opposite - is designed for better economy, rather than better peak power.
Newer i-VTEC (as found in the K20 etc) also introduces cam phasing, which allows adjustment of the timing of the intake cam as well.
This means that the newer VTEC engines have a much smoother power delivery, and don't have the "kick" that is noticeable with the older DOHC engines.
Toyota's VVT does the cam phasing bit, and VVT-i adds the two cam profiles.
Many more manufacturers use variable valve timing via phasing or profiling, such as BMW's VANOS, Mitsubishi's MIVEC, Alfa Romeo's TwinSpark and even all of the Renault Clio Sport cars have variable valve timing - it's a common feature nowadays.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,532
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
Have you owned both or are you just a honda fanboy? I had a CH1 Type-R before this. No where near as good as the SR20VE I have now. Not as much torque for starters. The CH1 was better in putting it's power down due to the diff but that will soon change when I manage to get my hands on a pulsar VZR gearbox.
Isn't the SR20VE a Nissan engine and not a Toyota engine, not what the OP is asking? Also, I believe it came out in 2001 (might be wrong here?), so shouldn't you be comparing it with a K20, and not an older H22 lump? I also believe the K20 is widely regarded as the best NA 4 pot engine in the world.
As for owning both, no I haven't, and as such I haven't claimed one is better than the other.
I do know what the general consensus is from owners though, but couldn't comment myself as I've only owned VTEC engines.
Last edited:
It's a thread about Honda VTEC and Toyota VVTL-i. Where does Nissan fit in? It doesn't.
What does gearboxes and differentials and "putting power down" have to do with this thread?
Everyone is entitled to their subjective opinion. The general consensus just about everywhere, not just here, is that the Honda VTEC is the best design of a lifting cam engine. Feel free to disagree but don't act all surprised when people are sort of indifferent and "yeah yeah alright mate" to anything you say.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_valve_timing#Implementations
Today every manufacturer uses some form of VVT, hell even the Ford Mustang has it lol.
*Edit*
sorry I thought you were asking what Nissan's equivalent of VVTL/VTEC was.
Plenty of F20C's have popped tough!
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 10,648
Good luck with that search!
I'd love an SR16VE lump but I guess I'll make do with a standard SR20DE.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,532
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
97 it came out. by 2000 it was making 204bhp and 280bhp (gentlemens agreement) turbo in factory form. All engines were rev limited too which is why a lot of engine swaps make more than standard when mapped with a higher red line. All the early SR20VE's were CVT gearboxes too
. The SR16VE made 197bhp in top spec and that was 1998. Maybe I misread the OP's intention but coming into this thread to me anyway was a "which variable cam engine is the best". I mentioned the NeoVVL family of engines simply as it's not a well known engine as the OP might of never known. Not to upset the VTEC loving crew.
The putting down power was me comparing my SR20VE to the H22 I had in my Accord before it as I do not yet have a LSD for it.
I agree VTEC is most likely considered the best because the other options are unknown in the west.
I'll try and stay on topic....
My experience to back up my opinion is ...
- Celica 190 VVTL-i (Circa 1hr test drive - accompanied, but the guy was mental)
- EP3 Civic Type R (K20A - 1hr test drive - unaccompanied)
- FN2 Civic Type R (Honda S2000 owners Experience day, 2 sessions round Rockingham)
- DC2 SiR (B18, passenger in Jonnycoupe's modified one)
- AP1 S2000 (F20C, my car for nearly 3 years, and then a fair few others as passengers or potential purchase cars before I bought mine)
Firstly, VTEC engines are all different. For this thread lets assume the OP is talking about 'Red Block' VTEC engines, not the ones you find in a 1.4 Honda Jazz. For clarity, I'm on about the high performance engines.
Secondly, even within these 'high output' engines, there are totally different levels of refinement, power, and general overall performance. In short, they all drive and feel totally different. I think, and I'm sure someone might correct me on this, but "early" engines like the B18 and the F20C for example do not have Variable Valve Timing, so are a lot let 'smooth' than something like a K20A.
I quite liked my Celica 190 test drive, it was fun, the engine suited the car (high revving, work me hard mentality) but it was in my mind a 'lesser' engine than any of Honda's VTEC offerings that I've tried.
My experience to back up my opinion is ...
- Celica 190 VVTL-i (Circa 1hr test drive - accompanied, but the guy was mental)
- EP3 Civic Type R (K20A - 1hr test drive - unaccompanied)
- FN2 Civic Type R (Honda S2000 owners Experience day, 2 sessions round Rockingham)
- DC2 SiR (B18, passenger in Jonnycoupe's modified one)
- AP1 S2000 (F20C, my car for nearly 3 years, and then a fair few others as passengers or potential purchase cars before I bought mine)
Firstly, VTEC engines are all different. For this thread lets assume the OP is talking about 'Red Block' VTEC engines, not the ones you find in a 1.4 Honda Jazz. For clarity, I'm on about the high performance engines.
Secondly, even within these 'high output' engines, there are totally different levels of refinement, power, and general overall performance. In short, they all drive and feel totally different. I think, and I'm sure someone might correct me on this, but "early" engines like the B18 and the F20C for example do not have Variable Valve Timing, so are a lot let 'smooth' than something like a K20A.
I quite liked my Celica 190 test drive, it was fun, the engine suited the car (high revving, work me hard mentality) but it was in my mind a 'lesser' engine than any of Honda's VTEC offerings that I've tried.
Associate
- Joined
- 10 Oct 2006
- Posts
- 643
- Location
- Chichester
There are differences within the K20 engine range as well. My EV1 has a K20A3 with a variable Vtec from 2400rpm - 2800rpm based on current needs, 160bhp. You cannot feel Vtec at all but do get a more noticeable burble. Mine is badged as I-Vtec.
I have no experience of any other variable valve / cam engines, this was just FYI
