VW emissions recall, anyone had it?

[Semple]

I'd suspect VAG will blow this case right out of the water.

I do sympathise with owners who have had numerous problems go wrong, and the headaches in trying to get VAG to foot the bill for these repairs, also for the cars devaluing (i'd bet my Audi would be worth considerably more had this mess not come to light). But for S&G to claim in court that tens of thousands of owners were mis-sold the vehicle based on the NOx values being much higher than advertised, comes across as a very thin argument to me. All VAG needs to prove to the court is that the average Joe who's come into the dealership to buy a car has typically looked at bhp, 0-60 acceleration, top speed, and fuel efficiency. Had they been advised at the time that the NOx value might be a little higher than what had been advertised, maybe a very small percentage (1-5%) would have walked away, everyone else would have just shrugged their shoulders and gone 'oh well'.

Unfortunately the court will require facts to successfully prosecute VAG, so unless owners have sales contracts to state that they've purchased the car based on certain data values of things like NOx etc, i can't see this case gaining any traction. It would almost be like trying to sue the manufacturer for advertising your cars MPG as 70, when you can barely get it above 50.

 

[Nasher]

The emissions figures are still listed on the spec though. Whether they read it or not it's still been miss-sold.

 

[Semple]

So is the MPG, i don't see millions of owners taking manufacturers to court every other week because the MPG they're getting on the road is significantly less than what the spec quotes.

Same principle, no?

 

[bloodiedathame]

This is what I mean, the whole car industry is ******, MPG figures are a joke, as are emissions, because the cars don't have to perform at that level all the time.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

No it’s not the same principle at all. I think your missing the point, the MPG/emissions figures are based on the test, every car sold should be able to get the quoted figures in the test. No one is saying the test represents the real world, it is simply there to act as a consistent benchmark for comparative purposes.

Also the fix lowers the lowers the MPG in most cases, including the test.

How many people would have walked away because it should have been in a much higher tax bracket than it was? The tax bracket makes loads of difference to your average buyer, there is clear evidence behind this.

 

[bloodiedathame]

I've got an affected car with the fix. Thankfully nothing has gone mechanically wrong but I'm down on mpg and performance.

You're saying the test is a good benchmark, but it's not. Case in point VAG cheating to the n-th degree to sell their cars. I'm saying there should be a new test, because the current one is 20 years old and all the manufacturers cheat it. Making a car get good values under test conditions which has no bearing on real world driving is classic mis-selling. I think manufacturers should be held responsible if their emissions/MPG values aren't realistic.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I never said it was a good benchmark, all that matters is that it is consistent so you can compare BMW Y to VW X. It’s irrlevent what the quoted figures actually are when you are comparing models. Higher mpg is better.

There will be very few examples where one car with a lower test figure gets better real world MPG.

‘Real world mpg’ is so inconsistent anyway between drivers and uses it’s impossible to compare.

The test is also nothing to do with the manufacturers, it’s controlled by the EU.

There is also a new test being introduced called WLTP.

 

[bloodiedathame]

You might not have said it was good, but you are arguing that it has a purpose, whereas I don't think it does. What purpose it maybe did have has been lost as manufacturers have got sneaky/cleverer/fraudulent.

Whilst I fully appreciate that 'real-world' is an impossible scenario, I hope the new test helps (and by the looks of it, it does).

 

[Semple]

No it’s not the same principle at all. I think your missing the point, the MPG/emissions figures are based on the test, every car sold should be able to get the quoted figures in the test. No one is saying the test represents the real world, it is simply there to act as a consistent benchmark for comparative purposes.

Also the fix lowers the lowers the MPG in most cases, including the test.

Of course it is.

If you look in the other thread about VW cheating emissions tests, i think it was Entai who mentioned that VAG can still run any of their cars through the test and still achieve the quoted figures in the spec. Just in the same way as if the courts and/or other regulatory bodies ordered them to prove they could hit 75 MPG. The problem isn't with the figures, it's how manufacturers run these tests and how they're perceived in the real world.

How many people would have walked away because it should have been in a much higher tax bracket than it was? The tax bracket makes loads of difference to your average buyer, there is clear evidence behind this.

That shouldn't have made any difference, VED is based on fuel type and CO2 emissions, not NOx emissions. Everything i've read about the cheat device was a way of lowering the NOx emissions. I don't think it's been proven that correcting the cheat device has resulted in the car spewing out more CO2?

 

[Manbatius]

Well, my emissions management light came on yesterday and has stayed on, so into VW it will go. I bet they try and wriggle out of anything even though there is meant to be 2 year warranty on emissions parts after remap.

(Golf 2.0 tdi for reference, been so so since remap -5mpg according to my calcs, also dpf was re-genning constantly, super diesel sorted this, been on that ever since remap)

 

[muon]

That shouldn't have made any difference, VED is based on fuel type and CO2 emissions, not NOx emissions. Everything i've read about the cheat device was a way of lowering the NOx emissions. I don't think it's been proven that correcting the cheat device has resulted in the car spewing out more CO2?

If it is less fuel efficient then more CO2. Simple chemistry (burn fuel cleanly and the two products are H2O and CO2). It is why diesels have far lower CO2 emissions, because of their fuel efficiency.

If genuinely VW could have had lower NOx for the same fuel efficiency (and therefore CO2 emissions), then they wouldn't have designed a cheat device.

 

[Manbatius]

Just an update, instead of paying £60 to vw I got a diagnostic reader and got a fault code which is related to the MAF sensor. Still considering having a remap to remove this tripe.