Wales approves cannabis-based medicine

Soldato
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I did say it helps towards the symptoms though didn't I :D

Yes I agree cure and prevent is a big statement to make, but I think that's the part of me that wants it to be true, for humanity and to get rid of the horrible disease.

You've got my respect back for your last statement :). (Not that you'd care about not having it :D).
 
Caporegime
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Why were they sectioned? what for?

presumably under the mental health act for conditions brought upon by use of cannabis.

There are plenty in this thread that admit they have smoked cannabis and are aware of the potential mental health side effects - but say they don't happen to them.

unfortunately it does happen to some - and that's what happens when you're one of those people.
 
Soldato
Joined
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11,845
Are we still talking about your assertion that cannabis related drugs help cure cancer? I don't doubt there are other conditions that it is scientifically verifiable to say it is effective, which I fully support, but I don't see any evidence about any efficacy to treat cancer.

Like I said, I'm not against the medicinal use of any substance as long as the evidence supports it's use and I, like the medical community, have a high burden of proof.

Well here is one that took 2 seconds to look up:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198381?dopt=Abstract
 
Associate
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London
Legalise it!

Listen, some people have no self-control and get carried away with things. There are so many more alcoholics that have perma-*****d themselves in a legal drug than there are dope fiends that can no longer function anymore due to panaoia caused by the evil weed.

I like so many others smoked loads as a teenager and had a great time in the process. I got 3 A-Levels, continued to smoke through university and came out the other side with a distinctly normal 2:1. I don't smoke any more as I can't be bothered with the laborious task of finding somebody to buy it off that isn't a teenager or a crack head. I just don't need that in my life. At festivals or any other place where a joint is passed around I'll happily smoke and thoroughly enjoy it.

And to all the narrow minded, here's something you probably already know:
 
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Soldato
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It shouldn't be legal and sold like beer is, that could potentially be dangerous and costly.
It should however be un-demonised so it can be studied properly.

As so many have said, the legality issue has very little impact on usage.
 
Soldato
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I can't be bothered with the laborious task of finding somebody to buy it off that isn't a teenager or a crack head.

Bit of a paradox.

Anyone who is post-teen and still in the drugs game will either be in jail or will have moved up out of street level.
 
Soldato
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12,702
Well here is one that took 2 seconds to look up:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198381?dopt=Abstract


Just out of interest did you actually read and assess the quality of these papers? People just seem to google a paper on here that investigates something that agrees with their opinion without assessing whether that paper was well written, the conclusions valid and appropriate or that other researchers may have found the opposite. It may look like you are substantiating your argument but really it is no better than linking from wikipedia.

I could link an article on cold fusion and it would be exactly the same as what you've done there if you haven't actually but forward the papers because you have determined their validity. How do you feel about the studies which demonstrate a causative link between cannabis usage and development of cancer?
 
Associate
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As an ex-smoker of 16+ years (daily), I can tell you one thing. Cannabis does not 'open you mind', in fact it does the opposite. You may well sit there at home or with friends stoned and talk about stuff that you may not have otherwise and believe that you are wise, but you are not. One day that will dawn on you.

I guarantee one thing for any daily smoker, that is that one day it will not do what it once did anymore and you will slowly learn that it has prevented you from achieving things that you may have done if you did not smoke. I still have a few friends that still smoke daily after 15 years and not one of them has achieved their potential.

I have no doubt at all that there are medical benefits, but as a recreational drug I class it as the worst one of the lot, and I have been there and done it with the lot of them. Whilst it may not be the most addictive, or the most dangerous, the fact that it is classed as one of the lesser illegal drugs to me is rubbish. The simple fact that it is deemed less dangerous makes people think it is safer to do on a regular basis and that is what makes it so harmful. Only alcohol, or those with addictive personalities that move onto harder drugs daily are worse, and cannabis is the start.

When you see good friends get sectioned for this so called 'safe drug' you should know that it is not safe at all.
.

In your opinion!

I was(and still do from time to time) a daily user for 27 years, I have 2 kids a wife,own my own home and never been out of work. I did an Engineering apprenticeship when I left school and have just been promoted to associate director of the company I work for. I don't Know maybe I had the potential to be a rocket scientist or something?
I have friends who are basically the same, Doctors,Engineers,Lawyers & Designers.

Maybe you just sat vegetating for 16+ years,(like an alcoholic) in my opinion it is down to the individual how something affects us.

I don't believe its some kind of wonder drug, nor do I believe its the demon drug gateway to hell like the uneducated do, no drug is ever complete with out its ill effects.

Believe it or not there are people out there who have problems with aspirin, maybe we should ban this too.
 
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Soldato
Joined
12 Apr 2007
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Just out of interest did you actually read and assess the quality of these papers? People just seem to google a paper on here that investigates something that agrees with their opinion without assessing whether that paper was well written, the conclusions valid and appropriate or that other researchers may have found the opposite. It may look like you are substantiating your argument but really it is no better than linking from wikipedia.

I could link an article on cold fusion and it would be exactly the same as what you've done there if you haven't actually but forward the papers because you have determined their validity. How do you feel about the studies which demonstrate a causative link between cannabis usage and development of cancer?

The poster asked for some evidence that it can can provide the desired results in the context of cancer, and I linked to some.

There are papers that you rightly pointed out that suggest iin some situations it can be an antagonist.. What is clear is that there are mechanisms at play here that are of very high scientific interest in terms of cancer treatment.

Especially as current treatment is arguably as lethal as the cancer itself.
 
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Man of Honour
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So you state it's different then state it is the same :p

No, I didn't. If that's what you read, then I suggest you read it again.

To state it is significantly less harmful than those "legal" drugs... yes, sure... that is a valid comparison.

Your reply strengthens the point I made - saying that it is valid to compare cannabis with the two recreational drugs that account for about 95% of all drug-related deaths is even less of an argument in favour of legalising cannabis. It's very clearly an argument for keeping it illegal.

I have a very simple point... prohibition does not work... even if you choose to look at it as an issue, which I do not, prohibition causes more problems than it fixes and only goes to benefit those we would not normally like to benefit.

That's a completely different argument and a much better one. But is it true? You argue that cannabis is significantly less harmful than the drugs that cause 95% of all drug-related deaths in this country (and a similar proportion in many other countries). Which is true when eaten, but it's usually smoked. But in any case, you don't claim that it's absolutely harmless or that it's the miracle drug that cures all ills. So increased use would increase harm - more than it being illegal or less? Personally, I think less but I wouldn't say that's definitely proven to be true.

We have reasonable examples of this within the past century with the prohibition of Alcohol in the US... along with the prohibition of other substances the world over.

Outlawing a widely used and previously legal drug that's deeply engrained in the culture (such as alcohol in the USA) is not an example of legalising a far less widely used and previously illegal drug that isn't deeply engrained in the culture. One doesn't support the other.

If you wish to solve an "issue", you need to remove the demand... criminalising people does not do that - it is painfully obvious.

Why fight a war that cannot be won? (money?)

That's an argument for legalising all drugs for recreational use. Is that what you intended?

It's a naturally growing plant... it's hardly the same as a prescription medication and should not be treated as such.

But that's exactly the comparison you were making ("Pharma-approved prescription medication")and I was replying to. It's not reasonable to change your argument on an ad hoc basis.

Your new argument has some flaws too;

1) Farming isn't really "naturally growing".
2) Many currently existing strains of cannabis are the result of human engineering, not naturally occuring evolution.
3) Your argument would allow the sale and use of whole plants but nothing else. No resin, no oil, no extracts for adding to other things, nothing.
4) Quite a few drugs are contained in plants, with morphine being the most obvious example. So your new argument applies to those as well.

Have you actually had a look into the history of this plant's illegality?

Your post (and many others) suggest that is not the case.

Are you going to do the Big Paper Nylon conspiracy thing? Are you aware that it requires the use of time travel in 1930s USA?
 
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