Walk me through this Synology wishlist...

Buddy

Buddy

Buddy

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I'm after NAS setup that can do the following:

1. One large 14tb for daily editing, RAW images in lightroom and photoshop.
2. Auto mirror/back up of above
3. One large 14tb hardrive for family images/videos and 4k video. The family media will only take up a small amount of space.
4. Auto mirror/back-up of above.

Hardware trouble shooting:
1. Is the above possible at all ? Say from a 4 slot synology setup?
2. Which synology system would you recommend?
3. Which 14tb drives would you recommend?
4. I'm fairly certain (youtube), that editing directly off these hardrives should not be a problem via LAN for RAW images. However, what about 4k video - these will typically be short clips. Worst case scenario I use the cache in the Editing suite to overcome any throttling issues (data over LAN) or a use a burner folder on my PC NMVE as and when I need to edit a selected few clips.

Software troubleshooting:
1. With regards to the RAID options 1-10 , what one do I want?
2. What is the terminology really of what I'm after (will help with my googlefoo)?
3. Is this setup relatively easy to sort with the software supplied?


Budget - I'm open. I'd like to keep this under 1k. Do it right first time rather than having to upgrade or change again a second time.

Notes:
Cloud backup is not an option really right now. We are talking about terabytes of data on a 65/15 mb connection.

Thanks for all and any help. I will try to keep this updated with any progress.
 
Buddy said:
1. One large 14tb for daily editing, RAW images in lightroom and photoshop.
2. Auto mirror/back up of above
3. One large 14tb hardrive for family images/videos and 4k video. The family media will only take up a small amount of space.
4. Auto mirror/back-up of above.
Click to expand...

Certainly possible, although there isn't necessarily any benefit to separating 1 and 3 - your NAS is generally just a big pool of storage, and you can share out certain folders for different things.

Buddy said:
Software troubleshooting:
1. With regards to the RAID options 1-10 , what one do I want?
2. What is the terminology really of what I'm after (will help with my googlefoo)?
3. Is this setup relatively easy to sort with the software supplied?
Click to expand...

RAID1 is essentially a mirrored drive, so in your examples above, you could have 4x14TB drives, configured as 2 separate RAID1 arrays - giving you 14TB for editing, 14TB for family images/videos.

RAID10 is also a mirrored array, but the disks are striped together to increase capacity. So your 4x14TB drives would become a single 28TB storage pool. You could then create a "editing" share, and a "family" share, within that storage pool - this is a bit more flexible if for example you temporarily need 18tb of "editing" space.

The resilience of both is similar:
In RAID1, you can tolerate 1 drive failing from a pair of drives without data loss.
In RAID10, you can tolerate up to 2 drives failing, as long as they are from different mirrored pairs
(e.g. disks 1&2 are a pair, 3&4 a pair - you could have 2 and 3 fail, without data loss)


RAID5/6 (Or SHR/SHR2 in Synology terms), are different in that they can allow any single drive (or 2 drives RAID6/SHR2) to fail without data loss. The benefit to RAID5 in a 4 drive array, is that you get 3/4 of the capacity e.g. 42TB from 4x14TB. The risk with RAID5 is that the rebuild operation is intensive and you can often experience another failure during the rebuild resulting in total data loss. RAID6 mitigates this to some degree and can be useful, but generally only a benefit on 5+ drive arrays).
For important data I would not recommend RAID5 - but for things that are replaceable (like ripped CD/DVD media collections) they can be acceptable to maximise space.


Buddy said:
4. I'm fairly certain (youtube), that editing directly off these hardrives should not be a problem via LAN for RAW images. However, what about 4k video - these will typically be short clips. Worst case scenario I use the cache in the Editing suite to overcome any throttling issues (data over LAN) or a use a burner folder on my PC NMVE as and when I need to edit a selected few clips.
Click to expand...

Personally I'd edit on a local drive, and then copy across to the NAS afterwards. It will avoid any performance issues (as gigabit network is slower even than most hard drives, let alone a sata SSD or NVMe), as well as avoiding any possible corruption issues e.g. if anything odd happens whilst the data is in flight.

Buddy said:
Cloud backup is not an option really right now. We are talking about terabytes of data on a 65/15 mb connection.
Click to expand...
Whatever you choose regarding a NAS though - A NAS IS NOT A BACKUP.
NAS' can still fail, and/or your data can still be accidentally deleted/corrupted/hit by a virus.

What other copies of your data are you storing?
RAID1 isn't a backup - it keeps your data available, but not protected.

You may actually be better with a 14TB hard drive in your PC, and then a 2nd 14TB drive in a USB Enclosure. Back data up to it once a week, and then disconnect it and store it somewhere separate (e.g. in your car or at work)
 
@Armageus thank you for the super detailed reply. You've given me food for thought.

Yes. Agree no point separating workflow vs family.

Interesting point about gigabyte LAN vs hardrive speed. I suppose I was looking at the easiest way to automate everything.

I could get a 14tb in the pc.


Then copy paste into simple RAID 1 setup (2 drive setup) once a week and leave separate from PC.

This whole process has made me realise how vulnerable my data is.
 
The Synology DSM software has some nice drive sync/backup software built in so if you end up keeping a large disk in your pc, and using the NAS purely for back up, then you will be able to easily set up an automatic back up at whatever frequency you want, you won't need to copy paste manually.

I'll describe how I have mine setup for what its worth. With a 920+ with 4x6TB drives in RAID5 I have approx. 18TB available in the pool. With external backups in mind I made four folders in the pool each with a maximum allocation set so the contents of each would fit nicely onto a number a 2TB, 3TB and 4TB dedicated external drives I keep for backing all this up, which I plug into a USB caddy on my PC, and sync the files as and when. The 3 and 4TB folders I use for media, and the 2TB is just for files and documents back up.

My PC has a 2TB drive for the same files and documents which the Synology cloud sync app automatically mirrors, and I also keep the separate 2TB external drive for additional backup as described above, so effectively 3 copies of that data for extra safety. Plex running on the NAS is able to include this sync folder, so any video/music etc I keep on that drive can be streamed to my TV ok, as well as the dedicated media library.

I wanted to use RAID5 to get that extra bit of storage compared to RAID 1, knowing that I rely on external backup disks. I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on a one drive redundancy to get me out of bother.

In my research before going for all this I noted that the current mainstream Synology NAS range are all limited to 1Gb ethernet. The main competitor to Synology is QNAP whose NAS range default to 2.5Gb out of the door. I personally am not bothered about network speed so went with Synology, but I also noted that any setups aimed mainly at productivity where editing 4k video or other intense work was going on, you want a minimum of 10Gb ethernet with properly managed switches etc, or don't even bother. Not my use case at all, but may be relevant to you.
 
@Bubo thanks.

Re the ethernet. I've got a semi decent router, cat6 cable and a switch next to the pc off amazon. Not sure of that cuts it tbh.

I think like you and @Armageus suggested. Have a base drive on the system and back up on the NAS. Automate this process.

I've picked synology purely as a brand I've seen thrown around. Haven't done any more research than that.

Is the software they provide quite user friendly? Straight forward to setup some of these options?
 
For a four-drive NAS I strongly recommend the Asustor Nimbustor 4 or Lockerstor 4 as they're much better value than Synology and have 2.5GbE built-in for when you upgrade your switch, etc. I have a Nimbustor 4 as well as a 6-bay Synology so I speak from experience.

Yes, Synology's DSM and Asustor's ADM are both reaonably easy to set up as long as you know the basic terminology and what you're trying to achieve.

I use Robocopy to synchronise my main PC to the Synology every night. A batch file is kicked off at 02:00 every morning and is finished a few minutes later.
 
Problem with editing off the NAS is for the most part the consumer Synologys are still packing 1GbE which is just too slow for editing directly off the NAS.

I edit locally and then mirror it to my DS220+.
 
Synology and QNAP NAS can do real-time replication mirroring a primary drive to a secondary without them requiring to be in RAID - I use that on my QNAP NAS to keep a backup of the internal RAID array to a USB drive stuck in the back. It does have some implications for performance though compared to using just RAID to duplicate data.

EDIT: I also use the copy button to periodically take a snapshot of the RAID contents to an external USB drive which I rotate to have an offline copy.
 
Just be aware that Lightroom won’t open catalogues on a network drive, regardless of how fast the data transfer is. You can have the RAW images stored on the network drive though.

there are a few options:

1) if you just have one catalogue, keep it on a local SSD and the RAW files on the NAS drive. Backup the catalogue to the NAS after every use.
2) If you have multiple catalogues (I use a separate one for each event), then create the catalogue in the same directory as the RAW photos on your local drive, and transfer/copy to the NAS after every use. You might just be able to copy the LR files on their own and potentially just point to the RAW files on the NAS the same as option 1. To work on that catalogue in the future, just copy it onto a local drive before opening it.
3) I believe its possible to mount NAS storage as iSCSI which Lightroom will then happily work with as if it was a locally mounted drive within your PC. I’m not sure how this works with Synology storage pools and sharing etc.

As the maximum transfer rate over a gigabit network is about 120 MBps, this is slower than most internal drives so performance will feel sluggish. I see you have cat 6 wiring, so think of getting a NAS that is 10G capable (or can take a 10G card in the future), so you can upgrade to a 10G switch and get the benefit of the speed offered by NVME SSD cache. You wouldn’t need a 10G capable router for internet access.

I think the Synology DS1621+ has 6 drive bays and can be upgraded with a 10G card, either Ethernet of SFP+ to connect to your switch. Other manufacturers have NAS enclosures which are 2.5G or even 10G ready for less money so worth shopping around and working out what features you want within your budget.
 
Minstadave said:
Problem with editing off the NAS is for the most part the consumer Synologys are still packing 1GbE which is just too slow for editing directly off the NAS.

I edit locally and then mirror it to my DS220+.
Click to expand...
This seems the way forward.

Thanks for the advice from everyone.

What's the go-to reliable hardrives to get?
 
Just an update to this thread.

I added an 8tb hardrive to my comp as I ran out of space.

Being offered a DS 218 for £150 from a mate.

Is there much difference between DS218 vs the various plus versions and 220 etc

I thought I'd stick x2 8tb hardrives in there, pool them as 16tb and split them as per my OG post as a raid 1. The data I need to backup currently sits across 2 hard-drives and totals 1.5tb.

Thoughts?
 
Right , thread revive. Picked up a synology 220+ and x2 8tb nas drives.
Went through the visit and I've gone for SHR over Raid 1 to give me flexibility.

I've created some folders and dragging and dropping files over. So.... err... is that it?

Are these files mirrored or just copied one way? E.g. I re-edit a file on lightroom, does the catalogue updated on the NAS?
If I delete a file on the comp, does it delete it on the NAS?
 
ok some googling.
I created team folder in Synology Drive - allowed permissions. Tested it with the folder I have copied over. Doesn't sync.
Then downloaded synology drive client - this asks for me to manually add all folders to sync (100s) and this seems completely ridiculous which means I am probably doing something wrong....
 
Frustrating - after much googling and youtube.
I've created a sync drive. and thrown in some test folders.
Also went through all the permissions and user settings to make sure all legit.
Despite this, using a jpegs as test files - modifying/deleting or copying does nothing to the cloud version. So it's not syncing.

Any solutions?
 
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I don't know Synology Drive Client but I'd expect to only need to add the top-level folders and the lower ones should get included. However the whole Driver Server setup seems overly complicated for a single client and I suggest looking at something like Robocopy on the PC. For example:

c:\windows\syswow64\robocopy e:\images \\nas\images *.* /COPY:DAT /DCOPY:T /FFT /MIR /R:5 /W:5 /MT /NP /LOG:images.log

will synchronise the images folder on my PC to the images folder on my NAS and log the results. A batch file containing six or eight similar lines is enough for all my data folders and can be set up to run as often as I want.
 
Thanks, having spent 700 quid I wanted to avoid 3rd party apps.

After uninstalling and re-installing with minor tweaks and finding some completely obscure options I got it working.

The software really is quite poor. Multiple different apps that should be one interface. Each app works differently with a different UI. Some basic options tucked away within tabs and tabs.
 
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