Warmonger - OMG!

Skeeter

Skeeter

Skeeter

Caporegime
Joined
8 Mar 2007
Posts
37,146
Location
Surrey
Hi

Thought id try Warmonger. For those who dont know its a game built on the UT3 engin, and is basically a free advert for the Ageia PhysiX cards.

Well, I figured UT3 runs perfectly well on my system (E6400, 2GB RAM and 8800GT) so this game should atleast be ok on it, even if they do say it needs the £80 PhysiX card...

Tried it out, default setting at 1440x900, got 9 FPS!
Tried it on minimum graphics, 9 FPS!
Tried it on full graphics, 6 FPS!

And this is the begining of the tutorial, stood still, with the only moving object being some hanging flag thing, and some bits of paper flying around!

And it looks crud too, far worse than UT3, the better looking, physics packing game this is built on. I have therefore come to this conclusion.

This game has been designed to automatically run appaulingly badly on any machine without a PhysiX card as to promote the card. Not through there being a need for the card, but in such a way that it must detect you dont have one, then run slowly on purpose.

I do not belive for a second that my machine cannot run this game at all, yet UT3 runs at prob 60+ FPS (havent Frapsed it yet) on full graphics. Unless they are using the PhysiX card to move and control every tiny piece of dust, this is just a blatant attempt to promote the card. They are obviously hoping you will download this game (its free by the way), and then decide to buy an £80 piece of hardware just to play it. All other games around today have decent physics whilst remaining fully playable, and looking a dam site prettier. Im sorry, but this has just convinced me that PhysiX cards are rubbish hardware built by stupid people...

Sorry, rant over.... :)
 
“This game has been designed to automatically run appaulingly badly on any machine without a PhysiX card as to promote the card. Not through there being a need for the card, but in such a way that it must detect you dont have one, then run slowly on purpose.”
Not true your just making that up. It’s due to the CPU being too weak to handle all the physics. The game doesn’t run slow on purpose because you don’t have a PPU. The game is made for hardware mode, you’re running in software mode. What do you expect? It’s like running the graphics on the CPU for a game made for hardware graphics. Your system is to weak for the game. The game is not seeing your system and going hrrm lets run at sub 20fps.

By your logic normal UT 3 slows its self down because it sees you don’t have a PPU. hrrm I am sure UT detect's you dont have a PPU and slows down all maps for people without one. In fact all PPU games do that. The PPU never does anything all games just run slower when you dont have a PPU.







“do not belive for a second that my machine cannot run this game at all, yet UT3 runs at prob 60+ FPS (havent Frapsed it yet) on full graphics.”
Go download and play the high physics maps on UT3 and you will get sub 20 if not sub 10fps.

Very nice choice of words Sleepery. Best one yet.
 
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Skeeter said:
This game has been designed to automatically run appaulingly badly on any machine without a PhysiX card as to promote the card. Not through there being a need for the card, but in such a way that it must detect you dont have one, then run slowly on purpose.
Click to expand...

Gasp, conspiracy. Tin hat, please!
 
my point is UT3 DOESNT slow itself down beacuse I dont have a PPU. Warmonger looks poo, and runs at 9 FPS, how is this meant to encorage me at all to buy a PPU...

I should have put my [skeeter hunch] tags around the slowdown statement. sorry.

I wouldnt consider a 3.2Ghz Core 2 Duo 'weak'. Its definately not top end, but provides ample oomph for current games.

Most gamers have atleast 2 cores... I just wish people would twig this and start coding games to use one of these for pysics. £80 for a PPU is just silly.
 
The textures in Warmonger are god awful, too.. and at 7 FPS, you get a damn good look at them ;)

So you can do damage to structures - big woop - I could do that in Red Faction, way before anyone even imagined a PPU card. The game is just hideously coded, it's the Vampire the Masquerade of the Unreal 3 Engine.
 
“my point is UT3 DOESNT slow itself down beacuse I dont have a PPU. “
Neither does Warmonger. UT runs slower without a PPU. Warmonger also runs slower without a PPU. But they don’t go, PPU not found lets lower FPS.




“Warmonger looks poo, and runs at 9 FPS, how is this meant to encorage me at all to buy a PPU...”
No it doesn’t. Just because your system it to slow to run it smoothly does not mean its poo. You can hardly appreciate the great physics and animations at 9fps. Even the lightening effects will look poor at that speed.

UT runs at 9fps with the same style of high physics maps. If your getting 9fps without a PPU and 30+fps with that its clearly working.






“Most gamers have atleast 2 cores... I just wish people would twig this and start coding games to use one of these for pysics”
People are coding cores to do physics but the CPU is not a good option and is very slow at physics. You can only optimise code so far. 1 CPU core is more then 50x slower at physics then a PPU. There are 12+ cores on a PPU. You just cannot do liquids and lots of physics on the CPU without massive slowdown.




“So you can do damage to structures - big woop - I could do that in Red Faction,”
It’s a lot more advance then what’s in Red Faction. Warmonger is not hideously coded it’s the CPU is to weak at physics.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WppbK-_K2xo

I hope this is the right vid youtube is blocked at dinner. I hardly call that like Red Faction. Both the side walls and ceiling are effected, way more rubble and the rubble effects the player. Warmonger also has soft metal that bends and cloth all effects Red Faction cannot handle.
 
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Pottsey said:
“my point is UT3 DOESNT slow itself down beacuse I dont have a PPU. “
Neither does Warmonger. UT runs slower without a PPU. Warmonger also runs slower without a PPU. But they don’t go, PPU not found lets lower FPS.




“Warmonger looks poo, and runs at 9 FPS, how is this meant to encorage me at all to buy a PPU...”
No it doesn’t. Just because your system it to slow to run it smoothly does not mean its poo. You can hardly appreciate the great physics and animations at 9fps. Even the lightening effects will look poor at that speed.

UT runs at 9fps with the same style of high physics maps. If your getting 9fps without a PPU and 30+fps with that its clearly working.






“Most gamers have atleast 2 cores... I just wish people would twig this and start coding games to use one of these for pysics”
People are coding cores to do physics but the CPU is not a good option and is very slow at physics. You can only optimise code so far. 1 CPU core is more then 50x slower at physics then a PPU. There are 12+ cores on a PPU. You just cannot do liquids and lots of physics on the CPU without massive slowdown.




“So you can do damage to structures - big woop - I could do that in Red Faction,”
It’s a lot more advance then what’s in Red Faction. Warmonger is not hideously coded it’s the CPU is to weak at physics.
Click to expand...

do you have a ppu?


What fps do you get?

Can we have screens? :)
 
Yes to your questions but at work right now. You have to wait till I get home. But screenshots are a bit pointless, after all you cannot see physics in motion. You me linking to a youtube vid be ok?
 
Pottsey said:
Yes to your questions but at work right now. You have to wait till I get home. But screenshots are a bit pointless, after all you cannot see physics in motion. You me linking to a youtube vid be ok?
Click to expand...

the screens where more about seeing if you where ling about your fps/system ;)

Paranoia...

Although it don't see the cards taking off till an oem ship thems as standard or a gfx company puts them on the card/uses their own core.
 
“So why is it that Physx isn't implemented in every game if it's so amazing?“
Catch22 the PPU is suffering from the same problem the first 3dcards had. Developers don’t want to support it due to the lack of people with one and people don’t want one due to lack of game support.
 
"Catch22 the PPU is suffering from the same problem the first 3dcards had. Developers don’t want to support it due to the lack of people with one and people don’t want one due to lack of game support."

Check out my unique style of posting and how antisocial it is. And you are wrong.

Tell me, isn't this the same situation for every product ever released by anyone? How can any group of people show demand for a product unless there's an existing reason to demand it? You can't expect people to shell out £80 for something in the hope that eventually there may have been a reason for buying it.

On the flipside, when introducing a niche product into a market, a manufacturer will produce that product when there is no demand in the hope of stirring some up. For example, look at Dyson vacuum cleaners. The world was awash with Hoovers yet Dyson produced something new and innovative, and people responded to that.

It suggests to me that Physx brings nothing beneficial to the table. What it does bring is cute and fluffy, but is neither cost effective or innovative enough to warrant pumping resources into production.

Or, the whole industry could be wrong, and you could know better. I don't believe in Catch22. You make your opportunities or you dont. simple as that really.
 
Pottsey said:
“So why is it that Physx isn't implemented in every game if it's so amazing?“
Catch22 the PPU is suffering from the same problem the first 3dcards had. Developers don’t want to support it due to the lack of people with one and people don’t want one due to lack of game support.
Click to expand...

..but with the early 3d cards it was less complicated. With or without the cards the games played the same.....and dont forget, even without 3d cards back then, games were still playable in software mode ;)

3D cards took off because they made a massive difference to visuals. PhysX cards wont take off, not this generation of cards at least. The results just arent worth the bother.
 
Ageia physics are crap anyway tbh. Every video I've seen showing the physics off always look to be in slow motion, it looks totally unrealistic. The fluid in those videos looks amazing though, that's the only thing which I think the PPU would ever be needed for.
 
Pottsey said:

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WppbK-_K2xo

I hope this is the right vid youtube is blocked at dinner. I hardly call that like Red Faction. Both the side walls and ceiling are effected, way more rubble and the rubble effects the player. Warmonger also has soft metal that bends and cloth all effects Red Faction cannot handle.
Click to expand...


Problem is i can never see that of being much of an addition to gameplay, actually scratch that, i can see it being a huge detriment.

For example, imagine that half-life 2 MP map with one big smashed up building in the centre and some streets around it, awesome fun. However, if the physics displayed there were implemented, that big, twisty, turny, exciting building would be demolised in 5 mins flat and all we would end up with would be a few guys running around in a big square full of rubble.

Buildings + walls in a good computer game are one of the most important design aspects within said game (Eg, once again, Half life 2), an aspect that would be pointless if you could just blow the crap out of them.
 
I've just download Warmonger and they blatantly have made it run bad on non PPU machines. When I spawn I get around 70fps and then my fps slowly decreases to around 15 and then will stay like that until I die. I respawn and I'm back at 70-80 fps... That just doesn't happen in any normal game. I'm standing there not doing anything and my fps just slowly decreases. Totally agree with the OP here.
 
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