Warnings and sickness

Jonnybmac

Jonnybmac

Jonnybmac

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17 Dec 2009
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I ask here because im at work on my break and dont really have time to look into it deeply.
I suffered muscle spasms and have been off work for 4 months. The cause of this was doing too many jobs at work and being refused help due to low manning as most my shift came out on the previous shift overtime. I returned to work 3 months from sickness and had a spasm at work after 4 days and they sent me home and refused to allow me back. For a further 4 weeks i was refused to come back until they got medical approval it was safe enough to do so.

Ive been back 3 weeks now and on my second day back i recieved a final written warning about my said attendance, bearing in mind i had 109% prior to this. They gave me no dicaplinary meeting and ive appealed. They said my notification was in a letter sent to me 2 months ago mid sickness.

Are they allowed to give warnings out through sickness and if my appeal is denied what action can i take on this? I feel ill tret when i was made to do 3 mans jobs when id already stated i had a bad back and was refused help and now theyve given a final written on the grounds ive been iff 4 months and have said the warning was given in a letter 2 months into my sickness and also the dicaplinary was when i had my final meeting before returning back to work which was titled a well being meeting. Surely you cant have a dicaplinary at the same time as asking ow i am/feel and if im capable of returning back to work. The final month i wanted to return to work but they refused me on grounds if being a safety risk
 
Depends totally on your contract...

Is there a union at work ? Are you in it ? At my place that would be where I'd go because the union guys know our contracts and t&c like the back of their hands

Other option is to look through it all carefully and launch an appeal if they've done something wrong
 
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"andy" said:
Depends totally on your contract...

Is there a union at work ? Are you in it ? At my place that would be where I'd go because the union guys know our contracts and t&c like the back of their hands

Other option is to look through it all carefully and launch an appeal if they've done something wrong
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This ^ Unions are there for a reason, I have seen them be used before and have always put the employee's first.
 
Sounds to me like they're looking to 'frustrate your contract' - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_work_comes_to_an_end_e/dismissal.htm

Frustration of contract happens when an employee cannot fulfil their contractual obligations because of an unforeseen change of circumstances. If a contract has been frustrated, this means that it no longer exists and neither the employer nor the employee has any obligations under it. There is therefore no dismissal.

The two most common ways in which a contract may be frustrated are long-term sickness or injury of the employee, and imprisonment of the employee.

It is common for employers to claim that the employment contract has been frustrated when they are actually dismissing an employee unfairly. If your employer is trying to claim the contract has been frustrated, you must consult an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on nearest CAB.
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I was under the impression employers were not allowed to contact the employee while of sick unless they are checking the progress of his recovery / require more information ie. doctors note etc etc

I dont believe you can legally send out letters giving warnings while off sick !
 
marshallman05 said:
I was under the impression employers were not allowed to contact the employee while of sick unless they are checking the progress of his recovery / require more information ie. doctors note etc etc

I dont believe you can legally send out letters giving warnings while off sick !
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This is wrong for sick and even with stress I think is incorrect, but some HR people say this. It's more difficult especially when off with stress, but as long as you follow guidelines you can contact them. That's what my HR mate says anyway, when I complain about our HR doing nothing when people our of with stress.
Part of our line mangers duties is to come and see you when of sick to check how you are doing. This changes if you our off with work related stress, but for injuries like op, they very much can contact him.

Even with a massive union, we can still get disciplined for being sick as stipulated in our T&Cs and even got rid off, although if you have a long term health problem you get 6months(iirc) to find another job in the company. But again that's company specific t&cs.
Being held off work or doing light duties until you've been assessed is also very common, especially in a recurring issue.
As said see the union if you have one.



How can you get muscle spasms by working to hard, have you been to the doctors and got to the bottom of this? sounds like more to it than that like low levels of nutrients or something. Some people have massively active jobs and don't get spasms.
 
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Any written warnings regarding absence must surely be signed by yourself and returned to your employer for future reference, if they cant produce that then they have made a mistake and this could be used against them in a tribunal where the Judge would most likely ask for proof of the written warnings. Looks to me like they have not followed the proper procedure regarding absence and they would be stuffed if it went to Court.
On the flip side, what is it you are actually suffering from? muscle spasms seems way too vague to me, have you been to the Doctors? have they diagnosed you? what did they say about you being fit for work? if so, did you follow their advice? what are you doing to get better? if I was your Boss I would be asking these questions as "muscle spasms" would not be an acceptable reason for taking so much time off work, I would need more information than this.
 
I eork in public, there is a union but im not in it and they wont allow me in due to having a case already.
I was doing 3 jobs 50 % of the shift flat out and when not there was still only 2 of us when 3 people at times struggle to keep up with the load, had no help and took no breaks as its a production line so when you fall begind you have to work even harder to catch up, which breaks didnt help. I was lugging around steel bars twice as heavy as me. I started off with little niggles and by the end of the shift my back was screaming with pain, i pushed on through it because if i went home the manning would mean my work collegue would have took the brunt of it and been left to do it all which i would have felt guilty for as it was hard for me when left on my own.
When i got home i was laid up all weekend and thats wgen the spasms started. I returned to work at 6am on the monday and had to be picked up 1 hour later due to being in so much pain. I went to the doctors with limited movement and i ended up in a&e and one point through blacking out from the pain.

Ive been to the doctors every week i was off, ive been to physio since i was made absent and only just recently been signed off. Ive had mri scans and a doctors note covering my full absense and released everything and been fully cooperative with my employer. I went in for 3 meetings and reponded to about 20 letters whilst being off too.

Ive been through a number of painkillers from naproxin, codine, paracetamol whixh then got changed to diclophenix, dyhydro-codine x2, paracetamol x2 and amytriptaline every 4 hours due to the pain and 3 amytritaline on a night to help me sleep. Forgive the spellings im not sure how to spell them correctly.
 
If you are going to be dismissed go on the sick for 6 months! You will get paid for up to 6 months sick.

It doesn't matter how many jobs you were doing extra, it's all about time management.

In this time look for alternitive work and leave before you get sacked for sickness.

Get out while you can.
 
make sure you have doctors notes covering your absence and treatment, they can only come to a mutual agreement about you leaving, but should try to find you more suitable work.

You are obliged to keep them informed throughout your absence so they may complain about that,

Oh yes, get HR involved and raise a grievance, that would keep them busy for a bit, then start talking about harassment and constructive dismissal.
 
I got aid for the first 6 weeks 90%, 80, 70 ect till 6 weeks were up then i was on ssp. My sickness was not a long holiday i was in serious amounts of pain, i got into serious debt due to my bills not being covered by insurance, i fell out with my sons mother over maintenance and my son didnt want to visit me as i was boring, broken and unable to play with him.
Added to the fact im genually an active person and hardly being able to go out the house drove me insane ontop of the constant pain and threats towards my job i felt pretty depressed.

We have no proper hr its just a secretary who does it all shes not properly trained to do it. I have all my doctors notes and my doctor has written to them several times. My pain was legit and maybe i should be sacked through some eyes but i feel wrongly treated for doing more than what i should have been doing on my team leaders orders, and given no help when asked then a final written when i came back.

Its not the first time ive been injured through rushing doing multiple jobs, a bar flew out of a machine abd laod me out, putting me in hospital and leaving me with a 3 inch scar on my head. I never claimed or anything and like i say im never off absent
 
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