Was Pele better than Naymar and Messi?

FrankJH said:
No dis-respect meant to Messi, but he wouldnt have been any player at all without modern (totally legal) medicine - so he is a "product" of his time.

Neymar, hmmm it is stil his speed and agility /control that makes him the player he is, yes with different (weight) of ball he would possibly be slower and maybe require a little more muscle but he would still be the agile player with the great touch etc he is now
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Would he have the same touch in a pair if heavy 70's boots and would he have bounced up like pele did after some truly brutal treatment? It's always fun to compare as we will never know! Pele would have been a different player if he was in his prime today fitter faster and I 'm sure he would have loved the moder balls and boots.

Apples and oranges comparison but fun none the less!

Kloser is a funny one his domestic goal scoring record is a bit meh and his contribution outside the penalty box minimal at best but he excels at scoring goals and seems to love the big occasion in the shirt of his adopted country! Muller gets similar criticism I think it was Ferdinand who said that playing against him if he's outside the box you just let him have it as you know nothing will happen.
 
a1ex2001 said:
The funny way to look at this is the other way round how good would messi and Newmarket be in the 70's with the old school really heavy ball and no protection what so ever from really hard and often blatant fouling? The modern game is quicker but the equipment playing field and clamp down on aggressive physical play have made a huge difference.
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its like comparing lewis hamilton to Sienna.
 
I think all 3 of them are over rated, Somebody said above Maradonna carried the whole team to a World Cup win & he doesn't even get a mention these days. Another one would be Van Basten (sp?) then Zidane, **** I could think of quite a few players I'd rate higher than any of those 3, Especially Gaymar the bitch slapper. :p
 
He is. He's very average. He's living purely on his name. The fact that he's a big money buy and is Brazilian.

He's in the fourth or fifth tier in the world. Not even to be discussed with players such as Messi, ronaldo, Robben, Suarez, etc.
 
He's very average if you take it into context. When someone is saying he's better than Messi, for example.
 
I wonder what the comparison stats for Pele and Neymar for diving are.
In fact how many players names get thrown around as being brilliant are diving so and so's but that gets overlooked because of their "skill"

Messi
Suarez
Robben
Entire German team..
 
Yea he's just your average hack job

Best Young Player of Campeonato Paulista (1): 2009
Best Forward of Campeonato Paulista (4): 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
Best Forward of Campeonato Brasileiro Série A (3): 2010, 2011, 2012
Best player of Campeonato Paulista (4): 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
Best player of South American Youth Championship (1): 2011
Best player of Copa Libertadores (1): 2011
Best player of Campeonato Brasileiro Série A (1): 2011
Best player of Recopa Sudamericana (1): 2012
FIFA Confederations Cup Golden Ball (1): 2013
Young Player of the Year (1): 2011
Campeonato Brasileiro Série A Championship Squad (3): 2010, 2011, 2012
Copa Libertadores Championship Squad (1): 2012
Arthur Friedenreich Award (2): 2010, 2012
Armando Nogueira Trophy (2): 2011, 2012
Golden Ball (1): 2011 – Best Player in Brazilian League by magazine Placar
Silver Ball (2): 2010, 2011 – Best Forward in Brazilian League by magazine Placar
Silver Ball hors concours (1): 2012
Golden Boot (2): 2010, 2011, 2012 – Most goals in all competition in Brazil
Copa do Brasil Top scorer (1): 2010
South American Youth Championship Top scorer (1): 2011
FIFA Club World Cup Bronze Ball (1): 2011
South American Footballer of the Year (2): 2011, 2012
FIFA Puskás Award (1): 2011
Campeonato Paulista Top scorer (1): 2012
Copa Libertadores Top scorer (1): 2012
FIFA Confederations Cup Bronze Shoe (1): 2013
FIFA Confederations Cup Dream Team (1): 2013
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The thing that makes me laugh about Pele is some of the most frequently shown footage is of him putting a shot behind for a goalkick, and having a close-range header saved by the keeper.

Admittedly he played in an era with much less media coverage but you'd think there would be a bit more evidence out there.
 
There are, of course, other legends. Maradona carried Argentina? See Eusebio. Legendary goalscoring record, including big games? See Gerd Muller. Hell, Romario wasn't far behind Pele for goal:game, and that's in the modern era.
 
Gilly said:
There are, of course, other legends. Maradona carried Argentina? See Eusebio. Legendary goalscoring record, including big games? See Gerd Muller. Hell, Romario wasn't far behind Pele for goal:game, and that's in the modern era.
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Good Shout there Gilly. Gerd Muller had a fantastic goal scoring ratio

709 Appearances, 655 Goals
 
I've always had this debate with fellow Stokies about Stanley Matthews, yes a God amongst footballers but he wouldn't stand a chance against modern players.
My best player of all time is Maradona.
 
You simply cannot judge modern footballers against the legends of the game. They smoked and drank FFS! It wasn't realised just what an impact that had.

Today's footballers are standing on the shoulders of giants. Diet, coaching, training, dedication, the cream of football gets everything, and every generation has a leg-up on the previous on due to the previous one's experience.
 
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