Water chiefs blame swimmers for point out the sewage in river . Lol.

Really?
Oh, what a champion idea... Perhaps you could relay this to Ofwat - After all, when we said we desperately needed to invest £16 billion in the network, they're the ones who decided we were only allowed to invest £3 billion.
This may have been due to us not having paid out any dividends for five years, though.
It's fairly clear at this point that the Of* so-called regulatory bodies are just as useless as the companies/monopolies they are supposed to regulate.

Like Ofcom (basically) allowing BT to write the "Universal Service Offering" that governs the minimum acceptable service for broadband, etc. And BT continually saying that "nobody needs more than 10Mb"...

The whole country is a mess because - who'd have thunk it - selling off state created monopolies at a fraction of their actual worth, then having utterly useless regulatory bodies to "police" them... well, it's not left us in such a great place.

Anybody defending infrastructure privatisation at this point needs to go to Specsavers, or the sanitorium.
 
It's fairly clear at this point that the Of* so-called regulatory bodies are just as useless as the companies/monopolies they are supposed to regulate.
Well, this is what you get for voting in the governments that have been in charge of such things...

Anybody defending infrastructure privatisation at this point needs to go to Specsavers, or the sanitorium.
Anybody slamming it should first remove their rose-tinted nostalgia glasses...

Before privatisation, the industry was massively fragmented, with over a thousand different undertakers, and you were at the utter mercy of your local council. A lot of things just never got sorted; pollution, public borrowing and corruption was rife. This current issue over sewage discharge has been around since the discharge licencing of the 1950s, and it wasn't until the 1970s that any significant infrastructure investment really happened. Even then, the numerous levels of bureaucracy, review boards and conflicting authorities meant that investments and improvements were rarely approved, while the industry as a whole was haemorrhaging money.

Gradually everything became more and more consolidated, finally reduced to ten regional authorities. However, they were still hampered by chronic underfunding and lack of investment from central government. This led to such a deterioration in water quality that the UK was eventually prosecuted by the ECJ for having such bad quality water. The cost of improvements to minimum standard was the modern equivalent of £230 billion, leaving privatisation as the only viable way of raising that level of capital.

Privatisation is not perfect, but compared to the 'utterly buggered' state while nationalised, things do at least get done. Looking at the recent governments' track records, do you really think they'd have managed things like the Victorian Mains Replacements, or the Lee and Tideway tunnels?
Had there been a government and a regulator that did their jobs, the industry would not have been bought up by unscrupulous private investors and professional asset-strippers. Ideally it would have become a Public-Private partnership.

On the flip-side, a lot of the industry capital (most of it, in fact) comes from loans and pension fund investments, so all those 'evil shareholders' receiving those 'nasty dividends' will benefit you when you retire...
 
Gradually everything became more and more consolidated, finally reduced to ten regional authorities. However, they were still hampered by chronic underfunding and lack of investment from central government. This led to such a deterioration in water quality that the UK was eventually prosecuted by the ECJ for having such bad quality water. The cost of improvements to minimum standard was the modern equivalent of £230 billion, leaving privatisation as the only viable way of raising that level of capital.

How is it that an industry cannot be run as a nationalised one, because there isn't the money to do so. But run as a privatised business, it pays out dividends?

This industry is (in theory) making a profit - so why isn't it self-funding when it is run for the purpose of providing the service, rather than run for the purpose of making money?
 
Well, this is what you get for voting in the governments that have been in charge of such things...


Anybody slamming it should first remove their rose-tinted nostalgia glasses...

Before privatisation, the industry was massively fragmented, with over a thousand different undertakers, and you were at the utter mercy of your local council. A lot of things just never got sorted; pollution, public borrowing and corruption was rife. This current issue over sewage discharge has been around since the discharge licencing of the 1950s, and it wasn't until the 1970s that any significant infrastructure investment really happened. Even then, the numerous levels of bureaucracy, review boards and conflicting authorities meant that investments and improvements were rarely approved, while the industry as a whole was haemorrhaging money.

Gradually everything became more and more consolidated, finally reduced to ten regional authorities. However, they were still hampered by chronic underfunding and lack of investment from central government. This led to such a deterioration in water quality that the UK was eventually prosecuted by the ECJ for having such bad quality water. The cost of improvements to minimum standard was the modern equivalent of £230 billion, leaving privatisation as the only viable way of raising that level of capital.

Privatisation is not perfect, but compared to the 'utterly buggered' state while nationalised, things do at least get done. Looking at the recent governments' track records, do you really think they'd have managed things like the Victorian Mains Replacements, or the Lee and Tideway tunnels?
Had there been a government and a regulator that did their jobs, the industry would not have been bought up by unscrupulous private investors and professional asset-strippers. Ideally it would have become a Public-Private partnership.

On the flip-side, a lot of the industry capital (most of it, in fact) comes from loans and pension fund investments, so all those 'evil shareholders' receiving those 'nasty dividends' will benefit you when you retire...
Whilst i am antiprivatisation of public services i also agree you make a good point.

I guess this may be cakeism but i like to believe that well organised and "profitable" and Nationalised do not HAVE to be mutually exclusive.

back in the day my dad did some building work - as a subcontractor - for the water board. He said the levels of waste (as in equipment waste not effluent) and mismanagement was disgusting and after seeing that is one reason he supported privatisation.

my dad and i are far from politically in agreement............ but I do not doubt him how bad things were, i just dont think privatisation - especially not the privatisation we got, with all of the negatives of having to sustain them out of our tax anyway - was the answer.
 
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How is it that an industry cannot be run as a nationalised one, because there isn't the money to do so. But run as a privatised business, it pays out dividends?

This industry is (in theory) making a profit - so why isn't it self-funding when it is run for the purpose of providing the service, rather than run for the purpose of making money?

Because when nationalised it relied on however much the government gave it. The government did this with public borrowing, but even then it was not enough to fund a lot of what was needed.
Privatisation funds these things through loans and investments, both of which the industry is required to pay back with interest or equity dividends. That's the cost of raising capital this way, and is done to ensure that customers don't have to foot the massive bill up-front. Their bills do go toward it, but over a much longer term.
It's also why we're prevented from investing LOADS of money in the infrastructure, because that investment would come with guaranteed returns and too much of that would then impact the customers.

The industry *is* being run for profit, but making that profit requires successfully delivering the services.
In addition, the profit itself is very small in comparison to other companies, and an ever-increasing chunk of that gets diverted into OPEX.

That's kinda the extent of my knowledge on corporate finance type stuff, but I could probably find you some links with more detail.

Whilst i am antiprivatisation of public services i also agree you make a good point.
I guess this may be cakeism but i like to believe that well organised and "profitable" and Nationalised do not HAVE to be mutually exclusive.
Privatisation in theory is the best option.
However, we went from a national monopoly to a privately owned monopoly. There's no competition.
You want national control and ownership, but private funding and operation... not forgetting a regulator that actually has teeth and is run by a competent crew.

back in the day my dad did some building work - as a subcontractor - for the water board. He said the levels of waste (as in equipment waste not effluent) and mismanagement was disgusting and after seeing that is one reason he supported privatisation.
Pretty much all the Old Guard, who worked in this industry before privatisation, and most of the newer generations agree it's far better private. Despite many of those OGs having better conditions and perks when they were local authority employees, the things they're now able to do are so easy it makes their job much more rewarding.
You can tell the Old Guard, as they still all clock off at 3pm on a Friday to go down the pub!
 
How is it that an industry cannot be run as a nationalised one, because there isn't the money to do so. But run as a privatised business, it pays out dividends?

This industry is (in theory) making a profit - so why isn't it self-funding when it is run for the purpose of providing the service, rather than run for the purpose of making money?

Public company can make profits. A few years ago there was a rail service that collapsed and the public took over.

After only 1 year it started to make profits. In Fact it started to make good profits. It was later sold by the government.

Cannot remember the name but if you search for it you'll find it.

Southeastern has become public 2021, let's see if they start to make a profit.
 
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Public company can make profits. A few years ago there was a rail service that collapsed and the public took over.

After only 1 year it started to make profits. In Fact it started to make good profits. It was later sold by the government.

Cannot remember the name but if you search for it you'll find it.

Southeastern has become public 2021, let's see if they start to make a profit.
I remember that, was it one that had to be then retaken into public ownership for a second time? Can't remember tbh.
 
I remember that, was it one that had to be then retaken into public ownership for a second time? Can't remember tbh.

Something like that. I just can't recall the name.
So yes it is possible for public run companies to make profits. Which could used to reduce the government borrowing.
 
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