Watercooling 3770k Questions

chrisoverson

chrisoverson

chrisoverson

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Hi all, my first post :D

So, I've been building PC's for years now as part of my job and recently decided to upgrade from my beloved Q6600. She served me well, but the i7 is a worthy upgrade, and I've definitely enjoyed building it.

I'm currently using a CM-Storm Trooper case, with a Coolermaster TPC-800 heatsink, with 2x 120mm Coolermaster fans. Currently got it on with Arctic Silver 5, which has had about 2 weeks to "bed in".

My problem is, that I can happily overclock it to say 4.2 - 4.3 without too much difficulty, but once I reach 4.5, the temps on Intel Burn Test are a bit too high for my liking. Idle is around 50-56 degrees (doesn't seem to matter what I do with my fan speeds), and under load it reaches high 80s or even low 90s if my room is hot. I had it running for a couple of days at 4.5, but I'm not happy with it going that high. Average temps on normal load (e.g. gaming) were around 75.

I attempted 4.6ghz.. but decided 101 degrees max was a bit high. I had to use 1.29v to keep it stable. I reduced it back very quickly, needless to say.


Now I've done some googling, and found lots of people have watercooled the 3770k, but I'm not sure what I could expect to run it on 24/7 with reasonable temps. I'd hope for a bit more than 4.5ghz... ideally.

Could anybody offer me any advice please? I've built dozens of PCs over the years... but I've never once actually done or worked on a watercooled PC, so this is a little out of my area. It is something I've always wanted to try though :).

Thanks very much in advance! ;)
 
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I should also probably add that I've had difficulty making this stable above around 4.4ghz without high voltages, could my RAM have anything to do with that? (Kingston ValueRam 2x8gb 1600mhz). As I understand it though, the unlocked multiplier means the ram shouldn't be a limiter here. I haven't tried to overclock that at all :p.
 
Still learning to overclock myself, but i had my 3770k @ 4.6 1.24v stable with max 64'c on water.

It might be the motherboard possibly limiting the overclock maybe?

Pretty sure many have the 3770k @4.6 or higher quite easily from what i've read.
 
Firstly don't bother with AS5, its days of being a top performing TIM have passed - grab from MX4 or similar (Stulid compared ALL of the different TIM's OcUK sell, thread about somewhere!).

If you're hitting 101c (isn't that TJmax on IB?) with 1.29v then I would say the heatsink you have isn't making great contact with the chip. I wouldn't worry about the memory either, you won't be tweaking the base so the memory will stay at 100x16 regardless of CPU multiplier, set it to XMP and leave it :)

BUT not to worry, with water you can afford to be less fussy with voltages, the case you have looks with a little light modding to take enough radiator to cool your CPU, a thick 240 radiator in the bottom looks the most popular way (google images - 'CM Storm Trooper Watercooling').

Do you have a budget in mind?
 
Thanks for the replies guys! :)

No fixed budget as yet... I know that there's little point in doing it half-arsed so I'd probably go for something decent if I did attempt watercooling. I can't afford to make it as fancy as some in the pic thread though lol. What kind of budget should I need to be thinking about? Would the OcUK V6 kit do the trick? Or would I need more do you think...

I don't believe I have the XMP option on my motherboard - ASUS P8Z77-V, although I think the V Pro has it. Tjmax is 105 degrees, but 101 is very close to it so I wouldn't dare run that overclock.

I've seen a few watercooling setups done in my case, but most didn't show temps before and after unfortunately. How big a radiator should I need to achieve a good temperature drop do you think? I know the case will accept 240mm without modification, and also 120mm easily. I don't need to cool the GPU at all, as even when maxed out in benchmarks it wont go above 59 degrees and is dead silent (love the windforce 670, brilliant cooler), so I just want to cool the CPU as much as possible.

Interesting about the AS5... what's the real difference between MX4? I thought the only problem with AS5 was it is conductive so you had to be careful with it? :P.
 
iirc AS5 is as you mentioned conductive, it also has a curing period and is generally lower performing compared to some other pastes now on the market, AS5 must be what, pushing on past 10 years old now? So its just showing its age more than anything.

A thick 240 radiator would handle a high clock on a 3770K, though its not going to hurt to drop another 120 in as well :)

As for kits, I'd start with the V8 kit, perhaps ask OcUK if you can change out the EX240 to an RX240 (RX is thicker, means you don't have to go nuts with high RPM fans). Then throw an RX120 in the rear :)
 
Interesting, I'll have to get some MX-4.

So, dual rads then, I'd considered that but not sure if it was necessary. An idea I've been toying with, as I have an old copper waterblock for a GPU (no idea what it fits) and a spare, fairly large 775 heatsink was adding a peltier to the loop.

Now, I know the problems with peltiers, as in they pump out lots of heat one side, and create condensation/ice on the other, but here was my idea... Add the GPU block to the water loop. On the copper plate, attach the peltier module with the heatsink on top to cool the peltier. The idea being that the water going through the block could be chilled, and the heatsink could dispell the heat. Also, unlike if I used ice etc. I could turn it on or off as I choose, for when I want to run high overclocks. I don't mind doing a bit of wiring with it as I'm into electronics too :). Don't know how well or if it would work, but it was an idea I had.

Going back to conventional methods with the single 240 or dual rads then, how much of an overclock could I hope to run maybe? I would like it to be nice and quiet if possible too... as my system is never off during the day.

Cheers guys! I'm learning fast :)
 
For quiet you'll want the thicker radiators I mentioned above (RX range). A single RX240 would be enough for the 3770K.

Depending how low you can keep the vcore (remember IB has heat issues related to intels naff application of the IHS) but if you can do 4.6ghz for 1.29v then I can see no reason why you couldn't hit 4.8ghz with water, perhaps more!

Peltiers...I had a good long look at this a few months back, the end conclusion I came to is that it wasn't worth the hassle and expense. The actually pelt unit might be cheap but they draw an absolutely tremendous amount of power (some iirc around 500w!!!). Also they aren't controllable chillers unless you loop in-line temp controls to the power source, then it becomes complicated to avoid dew points and the likes. Then you need to sort out the heat output side of the pelt which creates a whole other issue. I'm not saying it can't be done, but its with good reason you see it rarely done.
 
Yeah... I've read about Intel going for paste rather than solder, such a pain! With the lower nm they should run colder than sandybridge shouldn't they? But they run at least 10 degrees hotter (my friend has a 2600k, temps are much better) due to that silly detail.

4.8ghz sounds good to me! I'll have to look into this more... I didn't want to be limited to 4.5 after spending £150-200+ on this.

I understand there's a reason peltiers are not commonly seen... but I might give it a go. For the price of them, and seen as I already have a block and heatsink for it I can't see why not. Will just have to go carefully.

RX240 - I see what you mean they are nice and thick. Should easily fit in my case though... How about the pump/reservoir? I was thinking about one of the drive bay combo ones as the pump is submerged.
 
*Rich* said:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-140-XS&groupid=962&catid=2133&subcat=1845

I have this pump/res combo and works flawlessly, set to minimum speed you can't hear it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, added that to favorites.

Before I proceed... I should ask this really. I know there are a couple of other air coolers out there, and although the TPC-800 is supposed to be good, would I see a marked difference by using a Thermalright Silver Arrow, or the Noctua NH-D14 one for example? Or is watercooling the best way for a noticeable improvement?
 
I would say without doubt water will give you the biggest noticeable improvement in temperatures.

Not sure about those air coolers, as i have not used any of them.
 
*Rich* said:
I would say without doubt water will give you the biggest noticeable improvement in temperatures.

Not sure about those air coolers, as i have not used any of them.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Thought it was worth asking, as just that pump/reservoir alone is twice the cost of the bigger air coolers.

What kind of budget should I be looking at then for water? If I wanted say 4.8ghz achievable, cooling just the CPU.
 
Budget wise I would say £200+, no point going about it too cheaply tbh with you, if you cut corners you may regret it.
 
if your brave then this could save you between 10-15c easily http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18451271

also try lowering your PLL voltage some have got this down to about 1.55v (stock i think is about 1.8v) this could also shave off a few degrees.

I went watercooled and i enjoy its silence but it is wasted on my particular chip, can do the odd bench with highish clocks but for 24/7 i'm well below the average.
 
^^^ Something i'm not brave enough to attempt yet, i'll do it in about a year when they aren't worth as much ;)
 
I saw people doing the de-liding on youtube :p. I'm not really sure about it, although I'm sure it does help. If I did attempt that, I'd probably want to try it with heat to soften up the glue and use a blunt knife. Apparently that works just as well, as it's quite soft when warm. Lot less risk of cutting into the pcb. I'd also want to put the IHS back on with the right stuff, rather than run it "naked".

I don't think I'm brave enough for the moment, don't have the money to waste.

One other question though, I've heard that on the bottom of a lot of heatsinks they put a shiny aluminum layer for looks and corrosion resistance, and you can improve performance by lapping it back to copper. Is that something I should try also?

I'll save up for watercooling regardless now I think... its something I do want to try. With the peltier idea, is there any reason why I couldn't get it to work, or a reason why I shouldn't? The aim would be to digitally control it so it will only run when the water is above a certain temperature, meaning it wouldn't be able to go sub-ambient. I figure that this way it wouldn't be able to form condensation or ice, but should still increase the available cooling power.

I'll take a look inside my case to see what room I have for rads. Thanks guys for all the help thus far!
 
Okay, just ran IntelBurnTest on standard mode, with the PLL reduced to 1.55v, CPU at 1.25, and multiplier on 42 (4200mhz).

Coretemp shows max temps on the cores of 81, 86, 87, 81.
 
To be honest that seems too high for 4.2 and such low voltage with such a beefy heatsink, I don't think it's the paste as arctic silver is still good to this day, i'd say you may have not mounted the heat sink correctly and is worth remounting it, also check the spread pattern of the paste, maybe you didn't get enough or too much on the first time.
 
Ok, thanks - I'll try remounting it and see how that goes. It's a bit of a pain to get the right coverage with this heatsink as you can't tighten it very easily without it sliding about and moving the paste.

I'll report back with results :P.
 
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