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Watercooling and Phase Change stuff

Discussion in 'OC Archive' started by Orifice, Apr 19, 2003.

  1. Tobes

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 27, 2004

    Posts: 6,645

    Location: Cornwall

    that would be me who told adam
     
  2. Lewis_Bowns

    Associate

    Joined: Mar 16, 2005

    Posts: 49

    Location: Newquay

    oh by the way- nothing to do with OC but iv added u to my msn
     
  3. MikeTimbers

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 6,855

    Location: New Eltham, London

    Could a don please remove the last five posts :rolleyes:
     
  4. Lewis_Bowns

    Associate

    Joined: Mar 16, 2005

    Posts: 49

    Location: Newquay

    for the rest of my life im gonna have a celeron and try to overclock it, i mean value for money economy, and oh yes that link thats the cooling stuff
     
  5. Tobes

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 27, 2004

    Posts: 6,645

    Location: Cornwall

    remove last 7 posts... sorry about lewis. He just doesnt know when to shut up.
     
  6. KAZUYA

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 28, 2004

    Posts: 160

    Location: United Kingdom, Birmingha

    Hi All

    Hi,

    Just got a Antec P160 Case, Antec Neo Power 480W PSU & Waterchill watercooling kit original cost £190 for a meer £196.70 second hand but in Brilliant condition. What wear & tear do you get. Bargain!!!!!!!!!????? :D

    wow :eek:

    Kazuya
     
  7. rebelco

    Associate

    Joined: Jul 8, 2005

    Posts: 6

    Why doesnt anyone just build their own complete rigg? it works out a lot cheaper.... and can provide far superior results to any 'packaged kits' or other setups from manufactured parts. Its really simple to produce a CPU, GPU and HEATSINK waterblocks out of copper, and even create your own custom resivoir /pump.

    I purchased two vauxhall washer pumps for £12.50 including postage of ebay, hooked them up in parallel in the circuit... and changed the motors for two spares i had from my radio controlled helicopters, which can be bought from any model shop or www.ripmax.com
    It doesnt make that much difference on the throughput of the pumps, as the water still spends the same amount of time in the radiator/blocks anyway.

    I then bought a heatercore from a car scrapyard for around £15 and cleaned it up and modified it to fit in the circuit.

    For the waterblocks, I got some small scrap copper blocks for a few quid each, and cut them to allow throughput for the water, though you could simply drill connecting holes through the copper, and then block any excess holes.

    As the motors I used were designed to work from a low voltage, I rigged them both up to the power supply, so the were operational as soon as the power supply was turned on. Both act as a backup incase either fails, and also reduse the workload required by each to pump the water round, hence I can afford to turn the speed down even further to reduce noise.

    I reckon anyone can have a top notch water cooled system for under £50.

    My next idea is to create waterblocks with heatsinks also attached so that they can also make use of passive cooling, or simply add some more fans to further increase the cooling capability. That or to investigate the stability/further potential of using peltiers.
     
  8. Inferno Acid

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 2, 2004

    Posts: 107

    Location: [goldmember]I`m dutch! isnt that veerd?![/goldmemb

    Because most people who "want" watercooling are gamers who usually dont know alot about that stuff. Almost all overclockers i know either dont have the knowledge/patience to make their own custom kit.
    I on the other hand, i love making my own stuff for my rig ^_^

    Anyway another question, what is the best waterblock on the market right now? i kinda quit OCing for a while so back in the day the best i remember was a whitewater block. And i'm planning on milling a new block for my PC sooo.. Any suggestions? okithxhbi ^_^
     
  9. Marvt74

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 20, 2004

    Posts: 14,014

    Location: Higher Walton

    Rebelco with the costs of manufacturing your own blocks its not worth it when you can get very good designs comercially made for ~30. Home made blocks are less likley to perform as well as these and the majority of people dont have access to the required machinery.

    Am going to do a little write up about tecs tonight for this as a few people have mentioned them but not much has been said
     
  10. Marvt74

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 20, 2004

    Posts: 14,014

    Location: Higher Walton

    Ok heres a little effort about TEC's, if anyone can read through and give me tips on changing the order as it was all pretty random.

    Peltier Guide

    What is a Peltier?

    Well for a start its called a TEC (Thermo…..) Pelt is just the more common name. You will hear them refered to as both
    It’s a ceramic plate that has electricity flowing through it. It has both a hot side and a cold side.

    Why would I want a TEC?
    To get higher overclocks you need to cool your cpu down or it will overheat, the more you can cool the cpu, theoretically the higher you can overclock your cpu.

    So I just strap a TEC to the cpu and clock higher?
    Well no actually, as for the cold side of the Pelt to get nice and cold you need to be able to remove the heat from the hot side of the pelt. Otherwise it will just overheat and break the pelt and your cpu in the process. And its surprisingly hard to overclock your cpu when it doesn’t work anyway ;)

    Ok so how do I cool the hot side?

    Usually water is used to cool the hot side effectively, There are limited blocks available to use TEC’s these are
    Dangerden 3-1 (Very Old)
    Dangerden 4-1 (Most commonly used)
    Swiftec 6002? (Not too sure)

    There are others but these are the most commercially available. MAKE SURE THAT THE WATERBLOCK COMPLETELY COVERS THE PELT OR IT WILL FAIL.
    You will also need a beefy Radiator as a little 120.1 will not be as effective as a 120.3.

    If you are just cooling a cpu then a 120.2 or Thermochill PA160 should be sufficient but if adding extra blocks a 120.3 will be a better idea.
    For cooling only a gfx card I have found my 120.1 struggles with a 120w pelt and the water temp is about 33C although I only have a cheap fan strapped on one side so this may well be able to be brought down lower.

    Can I not strap a heatsink to the pelt to cool it?
    Very often asked and similarly to the fridge question always shot down. A heatsink cannot effectively cool the hot side sufficiently so you will end up cooking the cpu moreso than with just a heatsink.

    What wattage of pelt do I need to cool my cpu?
    If you have a little Dothan chip then you could probably get away with a 172W pelt, however for all other modern chips its recommended to not use anything less than a 226W, although it is getting increasingly more common to use a 320W one for the new FX57’s as these get VERY hot with a few extra volts.

    It also depends on how cold you want to go, if required you could strap a 400W pelt on and get down to about -30.

    I’ve bought a cheap fridge which has a pelt can I use this?
    No, this is likely to only be a 40w or maybe 80w if your lucky, this is not sufficient for cooling a cpu and barely capable of cooling the gfx either.

    I have a 500W psu can I attach a pelt to my power supply?
    Yes and No, providing you have a good quality 600W+ powersupply then it should be safe to attach a 172W pelt onto the 12v rail to get ~120W but anything else is going to cause major problems to your computer.

    I have a 300W no name psu can I use this alone to power my pelt?
    NO, you will kill your pelt and more than likely blow your psu up aswell, these cheap powersupplies are not able to supply anywhere near enough amps to power a pelt and should not be tried.

    So I cant use any psu to power the pelt?
    You need to get a dedicated pelt power supply such as a meanwell. These are not cheap 320w one will cost around £100 but is nessecary. This will be able to power a 226w and a 80w pelt. Or 2 172W pelts or one 320w pelt.

    REMEMBER
    If your pelt dies, ir does not conduct heat so will trap al heat around the core so don’t think “well if it dies it is still water cooled so will be fine”

    Can I cool my GFX and NB with a pelt?
    Yes, however be careful about condensation as these do not give out lots of heat and rarely are at full load unless during games. Older gfx cards (9800pro and below) used to be fine with an 80w pelt to cool them to around 0C, however the new cards kick out about 110w of heat and its recommended to use a 172w pelt, either at 172w at 24v or at 120w at 12v, the latter will cool an x850xtpe to about -10 idle and abour 5C under load. At the full 172w it should be down to about -20C.
    Northbridge chips don’t really even need to be cooled with water let alone a pelt as this will likely cause condensation,

    What blocks do i use for the GFX

    There a few you can get

    Danderden Maze 4-1
    Silverprop Cyclone Fusion SLT


    Cooling to low levels is condensation not an issue?
    Yes, you must be careful with condensation and take precautions.
    Recommended fitting instructions will be included with the block likely, and for the first time will probably buy a precut gasket of neoprene which will have all mounting holes cut out so no problems should arise there.
    There are also plenty guides on the net for fitting pelts so not needed here

    I think that is everything but any questions just ask.
     
  11. demon_phoenix

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 1, 2005

    Posts: 3

    hhhhmmm not sure

    maybe it's just me but im not so sure water cooling is a goode idea for newbies to the modding scene - but i need to do something cause the system is driving me nuts. The fans are realy going OTT. I was wondering if you guys could give me some hints and tips on what to do and how to do it.
     
  12. MikeTimbers

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 6,855

    Location: New Eltham, London

    Posting a question in the thread that is intended to answer the exact same question is less than bright! Read this thread!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. VeNT

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 9, 2003

    Posts: 20,565

    Location: Cornwall

    or get better fans!
     
  14. Marvt74

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 20, 2004

    Posts: 14,014

    Location: Higher Walton

  15. Marvt74

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 20, 2004

    Posts: 14,014

    Location: Higher Walton

    Information on Cooling Additives

    Fact 1:
    Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol, are considered to be non toxic when consumed in small to medium dosages, while large amounts can result in nausea, convulsions, slurred speech, disorientation, and heart and kidney problems. VERY large dosages can result in renal failure and death, but such high dosages would only be incurred by intention ingestion of ridiculous amounts of it, such as drinking a gallon of Anti-Freeze.

    Fact 2:
    Polyethylene Glycol, Polypropylene Glycol, Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol, are considered for most purpose to be essentially the same thing, and who’s chemical properties are nearly identical, as well has having identical effects on humans and cooling systems. In short, Zerex saying it uses Ethylene Glycol instead of Polypropylene glycol really doesn’t matter. They are essentially one in the same.

    Fact 3:
    The aforementioned Glycols are ionic compounds and when dissolved in water form slightly acidic solutions which conduct electricity (they are weak electrolytes), and in turn promote galvanic corrosion. Radiator fluid manufacturers add certain chemicals to counteract the electrolytic effect of the Glycols, thus stopping galvanic corrosion from occurring, but by themselves will cause corrosion.

    Fact 4:
    Glycols ONLY purpose in cooling systems is to increase waters boiling point and reduce its freezing point, with the lowest freezing point for Glycols being around -45C where the Glycol has a molar mass 430g/mol.

    Fact 5:
    Copper, copper sulfate, endothall, simazine, and diquat dibromide are all different active ingredients used Algaecides (products that kill Algae). You will notice that Copper is on the top of that list. That’s right folks. The main cooling component of your watercooling loop will kill most algae all by its lonesome. Some algae are immune to copper, and can be identified by their blue-green color. Also, diquat dibormide is essentially a stable liquid (in aqueous solution) form of bromine gas, which is used to kill various bacteria.

    Fact 6:
    If you are looking to gain a bit more performance out of your water, nonionic surfactants are the way to go. (Froogle: “nonionic surfactant” to purchase). Choose nonionic because they will not increase the conductivity of your coolant like ionic surfactants will, thus keeping your electronics as safe as possible in the unlikely case of a spill. Common nonionic surfactants include: alkyl polyglycosides, Alkyl ether sulfate, Amine oxide, and Linear alkylate sulfonate



    Conclusion:
    In a properly setup PC cooling system which contains no mixed metals, and uses copper/brass as the metal of choice, no coolant additives are required. Pure deionized water or distilled water will be your best choice, with a small amount of nonionic surfactant added for that extra .01C if your interested.


    I should note that I have been running a system on pure distilled water for the past 10months with absolutley no ill effects. There has been no corrosion (All copper/brass/delrin/PVC), and no algae buildup what so ever. Alas the white buildup on the inside of the tubing is still present, to which no one has any real idea what it is yet