We don't feel British, say Asians

[dirtydog]

Many Asians 'do not feel British'

Over a third of British Asians do not feel British, a BBC poll suggests.

The research for the Asian Network discovered 38% of the UK residents of South Asian origin polled felt only slightly or not at all British.

Over a third agreed that to get on in the UK they needed to be a "coconut", a term for somebody who is "brown on the outside but white on the inside".

Yet 84% are satisfied with life in Britain and almost half think they have more opportunities here.

Half of the South Asians and nearly two-thirds of the white people interviewed agreed it was too easy for immigrants to settle in Britain.

Identity 'important'

Three-quarters feel their culture is being diluted by living in the UK and nearly half believe white people do not treat them as British.

The poll was commissioned to coincide with the BBC's India and Pakistan '07 season of programmes to mark the 60th anniversary of the 1947 partition of India.

Some 12% of those polled said they considered themselves to be "coconuts".

Meenal Sachdev, director of Connect India - which works with young Asians to strengthen identity - said she did not think British Asians needed to be "coconuts" to be successful.

Identity can be a tool for success. I feel very confident about being a British Indian," she said.

"Confidence with identity comes down to ability and knowing you have as many opportunities as other people," she added.

Reena Combo, editor of Ikonz, a monthly Asian magazine aimed at young British Asians said: "I feel British but I feel very Asian as well.

"Many British Asians consider themselves to be British but at home they are more in touch with their cultural and ancestral roots."

But she agreed that some British Asians think they need to become "coconuts".

"They feel they need to fit into society and that society looks at them in a bad way," she added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6921534.stm

This seems to back up what I've always believed which is that a lot of Asians although born here, consider themselves foreigners in a foreign land.

To the Asians on this forum, do you feel British? How many Asians are 100% British?

 

[dirtydog]

Why pick on just the Asians?

Because it is they to whom the article refers?

Why not turn this into a poll for all forums members to ask them if they feel this, imo, abstract thing called "being British"? And how the hell do you calculate your percentage????

It is quite simple really I'm sure most people know whether they consider themselves British or not, and to what degree. I am 100% British for example.

 

[dirtydog]

Surely an entirely rhetorical question? There is no way to say for certain, for all I know it varies on a daily basis and would additionally depend on whether you are asking if Asians feel British or if they would satisfy your criteria to be British(whatever that may be?).

I agree that what Asians may consider 100% British, and what I consider 100% British, may well not be the same thing. The article is based on what Asians themselves think, and clearly by their own admission many of them do not feel British Of course it is true that some of those who *do* consider themselves British, might nonetheless not be considered so by others, but that is beyond the scope of the article.

 

[dirtydog]

Why don't we just go by what the Asians themselves consider themselves to be.

I agree that it would be interesting to hear what other ethnic minorities think too.

 

[dirtydog]

Not just ethincs - all members regardless of ethnicity, including native whites. How British do people in Britain feel?

I don't want to broaden the question out to ask natives if they feel like natives because it is a given. All it will do is derail the thread with people saying they feel English or Scottish and not British, or whatever. That is not the point of the thread.

 

[dirtydog]

This isnt a new thing DD, i remember as a boy Asians saying *** same thing, and to be quite honest, the muslim religion and thier heritage is something very dear to the asian community, and something to be cherished by them. I just think the problem arises when there is not attempt made to involve others and integration.

What does 'involving others' mean?

What does 'integration' mean, in your view? Can they consider themselves not really British (or not at all British) and practise an alien religion, yet still integrate? I don't think they can. They have to choose one or the other, they can't have it both ways.

 

[dirtydog]

...and that's my cue to leave this thread.

It seems to me you only wish to analyse immigrants regardless of how the natives themselves feel (that is one massive assumption you have made!). In my opinion, any answers given would be useless unless compared to something as a guideline and the best thing would be how "British" white natives feel.

To answer the question, I feel 100% human as I think that is all that matters.

Why would natives NOT feel like they are natives?

Of course the question is only directed at immigrants, it wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

Do you think perhaps that there are some white British natives who feel Pakistani then?

 

[dirtydog]

Though I think you're a little extreme sometimes dirtydog (most of your opinions are fine with me, you just seem very preachy about them and I mean no offense by that), I think you should be asking a different question...

If you asked a British person if they felt British, as you already said, they might say "No, I feel English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh" instead of British. So, I think that you should ask immigrants if they feel one of those instead, that way they can't dodge the question so easily.

@if: If you're currently residing in England, do you feel English?

Bringing the home nationalities into it totally confuses the issue, and is not the issue of this thread so I'd appreciate you not taking it down that road please

In simple terms I want to know whether Asians (and other immigrants if they wish to participate in the thread) feel that this island is their home and they have full allegiance to it and its people, or whether they feel stronger ties to a foreign land and people.

 

[dirtydog]

Mr. Dog, a few questions for you:

When did your family move to Britain?

How long does a lineage have to live in Britain for its' decendants to be considered 'British'?

Is this measured in years? Attitude? Generations?

Can only those with white skin be considered 'British'?

And...Can we please have your definition of 'British'?

*n

Why don't we just go by what the Asians themselves consider themselves to be.

 

[dirtydog]

Of course this is DDs plan, if you have a reference group then you can actually do some intelligent analysis but without a control then the results are completely meaningless and allows the closet racists to bang on their mindless ideals.

How on earth would knowing what natives think about themselves, be useful in telling us what immigrants think about THEMselves?

This is not about what other people think about the immigrants, it is what they themselves think. Is this a hard concept for people to grasp?

 

[dirtydog]

If you did a survey of everyone in the UK, there would be some people who would reply that they do not feel 'British', as some people consider themselves as either 'Scottish' or 'English' for example.

Makes good headlines though I suppose

But they'd still consider themselves belonging to this country and its people etc. so it would be totally confusing the issue unnecessarily... I wonder why people want to do that

 

[dirtydog]

i guess an overriding question is, how british do you have to feel for DD to believe it is okay for you to live within the UK?

if your sovereignty - but infact of german descent can you feel british? is it your duty to feel british?

how does this translate into actions, to feel british do you have to act british? Do you have to WANT to be british? etc.

No, it is very simple.

Asians, how British do you consider yourselves.

 

[dirtydog]

And you should be 100% correct, unfortunately there are those, who despite all the problems in the world, still conspire to create yet more problems.

Why would you say such a thing when you broadly share my views on mass immigration... the inference of your above post is that anyone who wants to come here should be allowed to. Try and be at least a little consistent...

To @if ®afiq, he might feel that way but clearly a lot of his fellow Asians do not.

 

[dirtydog]

You are asking them if they feel British.

If you do not clarify what 'British' is, then it is a pointless exercise.

I already acknowledged that there were two ways of looking at it. For this thread I have chosen by far the simplest one because that way it involves pages of argument about what constitutes being British.

I think that what a person considers himself to be is very important; whether that be nationality or anything else.

So once more, I ask you to clarify this.

I have noticed that you skirt around this question quite regularly (and also those pertaining to your own heritage)...

Are you a closet Asian?

*n

What is a closet Asian? Are you asking me if I am non-white?!

 

[dirtydog]

Was there any research on the reason they don't feel British. If I was made to feel as 'welcome' as some people like to make people from other countries or with different coloured skin feel, I wouldn't feel very British either...

Perhaps when they don't feel allegiance to Britain and/or act British, it isn't surprising that they aren't welcomed? Seems like a catch-22 to me.

DD, how can you ask the question you have when you've also stated that anyone not of the 'white race' cannot be considered truely British or English?

While I have my opinions, I am setting them aside for this thread and asking Asians what they themselves consider themselves to be, on the back of the article which asked a sample of Asians the same question.

 

[dirtydog]

I would say such a thing because I think delimiting immigrants by their nationality, skin colour or culture, is inappropriate and irrelevent. I don't care whether or not an Asian feels 100% British with regards to immigration anymore. My disagreement with the idea of immigration is based solely on numbers and other concrete metrics because I now believe that the threat of cultural change is actually a red herring, used as an argument by people who are actually only concerned with the colour of a person's skin.

You believe wrong then or I wouldn't have posted so much about white immigrants from Eastern Europe

 

[dirtydog]

cmon mate, thats a bit strong even for you ....

the muslim religion isnt 'alien' its just not idigenous to the UK, but calling it alien is a bit strong.

That's what alien means mate... lol Read the dictionary.

When i say integrate, i mean get people to know about such things as Eid Mubarak (sp?) and not try to change 'Merry Christmas' to 'Happy non-denominational present exchanging season'

So continuing their alien customs is integrating... no I don't think it is.

 

[dirtydog]

Integration is not assimilation. Continuing an alien culture without interfering in traditional culture will do fine for integration.

Is it possible for a large and fast growing section of society to practise an alien culture and not have it interfere with traditional culture at some point?

(Note I am not saying that all Asians do this as I'm sure they don't.)

 

[dirtydog]

I would also like to have this answered. Methinks this thread hasn't quite gone to plan

I don't feel 100% British, maybe 95%. I was born in Bermuda (British Dependent Nation) to British parents, I like to think that the 5% Bermudan bit of me makes me unique and are proud of it.

Does that class me as an immigrant?

Definition - One who immigrates; one who comes to a country for the purpose of permanent residence

I guess it does really, depending on your viewpoint. Oh and i'm also married to a US immigrant, and very glad of it

No you are not an immigrant.

 

[dirtydog]

With people like you around, id say not very british.

But my answer would be the same as Atif gave, i feel 100% human.

Weren't you banned?

I already know that you don't feel very British as you've said so many times