web design cost?

Are you getting paid for 80hrs?
No, as I said, my time working is split between work for clients and work on my own projects/work for a couple of companies I have an interest in.

I'll very rarely endup in a situation where I'm working more hours for a client than I've quoted for/I'm getting paid for. If anything, with the amount of code re-use I have, I'll endup working much less, with a big part of the project price going towards 'buying' libraries I've built up over the years.

When I'm working on my own projects, or for the companies I have an interest in, I'm generally not getting paid directly for the work. My own projects will often endup as part of future client sites though. Companies I'm building up, I'll not generally take anything out of, I do that work because I'm interested and if they ever take off, then I get my chance to get something back ;)
 
Just my 2c, but as a consumer, who has recently paid for a website to be built, i was more than happy to pay for a template, which was customised to my needs and requirements. It cost me less, for a proffesional developed template, instead of getting something very custom, less reliable, and starting from scratch.

Money saved, job done.
 
Without reading all of all the above posts here's mine.

I'm currently doing a site for a friend of the parents atm (never met her).

Brand & Website £350
SEO £50/month over 3 months (total £150)
Business Card Design £30
Letterhead Design £20
PayPal Setup £20
Web Hosting £15/year
Maintenance (ad-hoc) £15/hour

Total £585.

I think it's a good deal for her, and I'm also happy earning an extra £600 'play cash' over the course of a week or so.

Basically, I think you should just charge what you'd be happy with.
 
What sort of SEO are you planning to do for £50 a month??? Surely you're not planning on doing more than 2 hours work for that - at which point I can't see the point in 2 hours a month of SEO...

I'm not sure how you can spend 2hrs a month on SEO. You design the site with SEO in mind and that's it. Unless you call adwords campaigns etc as SEO, but that ain't 2hrs a month. I suppose you could spend some time each month trying to cultivate inbound links, but that isn't time consuming either.

On the other hand, snake oil is quite expensive these days, so who am I to argue.

Where are you hosting it? That's worryingly cheap IMHO.

Depends. There are plenty of shared hosting packages for less than that, assuming you don't need SSL, MSSQL, etc. The the traffic is registered in 00's per month rather than 000's, it won't even dent the most modest of reseller accounts. What the performance and uptime will be like is another question entirely.

I typically charge around £100pa for a small business, but that includes a certain amount of support and content updates (not that I have that many clients on my server), though I have arranged an independent host for some (i.e. I prime a shared hosting account and then wash my hands of it).

But some of my accounts pay peanuts because the were my first payers and I was just looking to cover the server costs.
 
What sort of SEO are you planning to do for £50 a month??? Surely you're not planning on doing more than 2 hours work for that - at which point I can't see the point in 2 hours a month of SEO...

Providing her with stats, altering onsite text as required in relation to stats, writing offsite content on blogs and registering for various general and related directories and communities.

Where are you hosting it? That's worryingly cheap IMHO.

How is it worryingly cheap? All I'm doing is sticking it on my hosting account - it could be 1p or £100/pa, either way it wouldn't change the hosting.

I'm not sure how you can spend 2hrs a month on SEO. You design the site with SEO in mind and that's it.

If you think SEO is worked on during the build and then never ever touched again, then, well, you're wrong. You're right though; two hours isn't a lot, but then neither is her budget or her needs.
 
I'm not sure how you can spend 2hrs a month on SEO. You design the site with SEO in mind and that's it. Unless you call adwords campaigns etc as SEO, but that ain't 2hrs a month. I suppose you could spend some time each month trying to cultivate inbound links, but that isn't time consuming either.
Are you kidding? A proper SEO campaign takes a lot of time - and I'm talking about organic results not SEM. In the first few months you're looking at local optimisation of of the site for general SEO factors, then you're looking on linkbait, link-building, unique content, widgets, responding to competitor changes in SEO strategy, keyword tracking and research to know which to target (particularly important as you start going after the long-tail) etc. Tell me how you're going to launch a site and get it ranking well for competitive keywords, with a decent pagerank and legitimate links pointing to it (i.e. relevant and completely white-hat) within a few months with 2 hours a month of SEO???

On the other hand, snake oil is quite expensive these days, so who am I to argue.
SEO is like advertising - if it's not more than paying for itself then the company will stop paying for it. One of my current climates has seen its traffic through organic search increase tenfold within 3 months of the start of my SEO work on it, for example (and I'm still mainly working on internal modifications with the linkbuilding strategy yet to properly kick-off).



Depends. There are plenty of shared hosting packages for less than that, assuming you don't need SSL, MSSQL, etc. The the traffic is registered in 00's per month rather than 000's, it won't even dent the most modest of reseller accounts. What the performance and uptime will be like is another question entirely.
So you don't think uptime is important to a business? Your site being down is seriously bad PR - it makes people think your company is unprofessional if your sites not even working.
 
Providing her with stats, altering onsite text as required in relation to stats, writing offsite content on blogs and registering for various general and related directories and communities.
You plan to get a lot of that done in 2 hours a month?



How is it worryingly cheap? All I'm doing is sticking it on my hosting account - it could be 1p or £100/pa, either way it wouldn't change the hosting.
It would change the quality of the hosting hugely. I'd presumed that you were getting shared hosting. I'm surprised she's happy for her site to be shoved on your hosting account, not having her own shared hosting account - it could create nightmare situations (for her) if you ever decide to stop paying for your hosting and move.
 
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You plan to get a lot of that done in 2 hours a month?

Please refresh my memory - I can't see where I said that I'd be spending 2 hours a month on it.

Oh yes, that's right, I didn't - you did. I could be working for £5/hour for all you know.


It would change the quality of the hosting hugely. I'd presumed that you were getting shared hosting. I'm surprised she's happy for her site to be shoved on your hosting account, not having her own shared hosting account - it could create nightmare situations (for her) if you ever decide to stop paying for your hosting and move.

That is absolutely ridiculous. I'll tell you what would be more of a nightmare for her - paying more than £15 to set up her own hosting and having no idea how to do it or what anything meant.

Moving a 200kb website is going to be the least of my worries if I were to ever switch hosting.

And please, what exactly is the difference in her 'owning' her own hosting to it being 'shoved' on with mine? It's not like she's going to buy a dedicated box, so technically whatever she does it'll be on the same hosting as a dozen other users.
 
...In the first few months you're looking at local optimisation of of the site for general SEO factors....

For example? What factors do you consider after you have launched the site?

then you're looking on linkbait, link-building, unique content, widgets,

Linkbait is a matter for debate. White-hat techniques include having good quality, appropriate content, having unique and up-to-date content, offering free information, products or services, offering amusing or particularly interesting content and lining into topical external content (e.g. news or articles elsewhere.

Grey techniques include offering controversial content, or content designed to shock or titillate, and also Digging or Stumbling your own content.

If we are talking about a small business, the white techniques should be considered at design time, and the grey techniques should not be considered at all.

That's not to say that you design your site then leave it alone; reviewing the site in 3, 6 or 12mths is sensible. But that differs to the OPs approach of working for the 1st 3 months.

responding to competitor changes in SEO strategy

WTF? I think you are confusing SEO with marketing. How a competitor optimises their site for search engines is largely irrelevant. What marketing approach the competitor takes over time, may be relevant, but I'd expect the business or their PR agents, rather than the small-time web developer, to handle this.

keyword tracking and research to know which to target...

You mean you don't cover this in the original design? How slack...

So you don't think uptime is important to a business? Your site being down is seriously bad PR - it makes people think your company is unprofessional if your sites not even working.

First of all, it's you that has introduced the idea that uptime is not important. Neither myself or any other poster has suggest the same.

Secondly, you then continue with a hysterical over-reaction.

It costs a lot of money to get a server with 99.99% uptime, and even more expensive to get one with an SLA that guarantees this. Most IPPs offers uptime figures that are reflective of an average or are aspirational. All servers go down at some point, the question is what happens when it does go down. The cost of hosts with failover clusters is astronomical, and will clearly be beyond the means of someone who has only spent £350 on their basic site.

However, for £15 pa you can get IPP to offer modest but adequate performance with 99%+ uptime. In the event of disaster, you will possibly have to wait a few hours for the server to come up, and may have to restore from your own backup, but it's a suitable solution for hobbyists or very small businesses.
 
Please refresh my memory - I can't see where I said that I'd be spending 2 hours a month on it.

Oh yes, that's right, I didn't - you did. I could be working for £5/hour for all you know.
You could be working for £5 an hour, but why would you want to work for less than minimum wage? How many hours work are you planning on doing for £50??


And please, what exactly is the difference in her 'owning' her own hosting to it being 'shoved' on with mine? It's not like she's going to buy a dedicated box, so technically whatever she does it'll be on the same hosting as a dozen other users.
If you decide to disappear overnight she can give the logon details to another developer who can take over maintaining the site. If the site was on your own hosting space when you disappear you could be taking the whole site with you and they have to get someone to build the site from scratch etc.
 
You could be working for £5 an hour, but why would you want to work for less than minimum wage? How many hours work are you planning on doing for £50??

As many as is needed - within reason of course. And maybe because it's something I enjoy, want to learn about and will benefit me in the long term?

If you decide to disappear overnight she can give the logon details to another developer who can take over maintaining the site. If the site was on your own hosting space when you disappear you could be taking the whole site with you and they have to get someone to build the site from scratch etc.

This is based on me doing a runner and not giving her the FTP details and/or site. Maybe you do this regularly, who knows, but I certainly don't.
 
For example? What factors do you consider after you have launched the site?
I'm not about to sit here and teach you SEO, but for example:
  • If the site has a blog, which I tend to recommend to pretty much all clients because of multiple benefits, there's training involved with that (not only in using it but in how the articles should be written)
  • Testing alternative landing pages/copy and its effect on conversion tracking
  • potentially re-writing content taking in to account what people are actually searching for to get to the site
  • potentially adding pages or even microsites to capture traffic from particular keywords that you're ending up just on page 2 for
  • etc


Linkbait is a matter for debate. White-hat techniques...
Linkbait is not grey hat. Some linkbait CAN be grey hat, but within itself is completely white hat. A highly informative page on a controversial issue that's relevant to that company can be linkbait. A tool that allows users to work out something relevant to what that company does (e.g. a BMI calculator on a fitness website) is potential linkbait (but would have to be better than the BMI calculator I used as an example obviously).

include having good quality, appropriate content, having unique and up-to-date content, offering free information, products or services, offering amusing or particularly interesting content and lining into topical external content (e.g. news or articles elsewhere.
I know.

Grey techniques include offering controversial content, or content designed to shock or titillate, and also Digging or Stumbling your own content.
Offering controversial content is not grey hat if the writer genuinely holds those beliefs and they are relevant to the subject.


If we are talking about a small business, the white techniques should be considered at design time, and the grey techniques should not be considered at all.
Considered at design time perhaps, but there's no way you can create, for example, highly optimised up-to-date content at design time, for example, purely as it would not be up-to-date a few months later - it is an ongoing process.

That's not to say that you design your site then leave it alone; reviewing the site in 3, 6 or 12mths is sensible. But that differs to the OPs approach of working for the 1st 3 months.
IMHO if you're going to do SEO and want to dominate the SERPS for competitive keywords you need at least some SEO work each month - preferable each week.


WTF? I think you are confusing SEO with marketing.
No, I'm not

How a competitor optimises their site for search engines is largely irrelevant.
If you suddenly see that Company X has chucked out a new widget, Y, which is appearing on tons of sites (obviously you'll be tracking mention of competitors on other sites (for linkbuilding apart from anything else)) then you might choose to stop your normal SEO work for a moment and build a better widget to stop the spread of theirs. Equally if your visitor numbers suddenly drop you may find it is due to a competitor moving up the SERPS. If you know why they've just moved up the SERPS you know how to fix it - and that's what I'd be inclined to do straight away. Equally, especially where you know the company's competitors are making use of someone's SEO talent it's always worth seeing what they're doing and running with the good ideas (whilst obviously ignoring the bad).

You mean you don't cover this in the original design? How slack...
You cover continual keyword tracking in the original design? I'd love to know how that is possible - you can install analytics etc but the process of tracking it is a continuous one almost by definition. As to knowing which keywords to target if you're telling me you've never noticed a keyword go 'hot' or have been surprised to see a large amount of search activity for a particular longtail then you've not been monitoring what people have been searching for well enough. Realising that a keywords getting important enough to devote resources to specifically targeting it is important.


First of all, it's you that has introduced the idea that uptime is not important. Neither myself or any other poster has suggest the same.
You said 'What the performance and uptime will be like is another question entirely. '. I'm saying that you can't just effectively say 'sod uptime, it's cheap'.
 
This is based on me doing a runner and not giving her the FTP details and/or site. Maybe you do this regularly, who knows, but I certainly don't.

Of course it's not a regular thing - but it's a legitimate concern for a customer and a reason why I wouldn't expect many customers to be happy with such an arrangement.
 
Someone mentioned uptime.

Uptime is essential for us. Commercial sites don't make money when they're off line so uptime is critical. We've got an SLA with our host for this reason.
 
I'm not about to sit here and teach you SEO,

lol

[*]If the site has a blog, which I tend to recommend to pretty much all clients because of multiple benefits, there's training involved with that (not only in using it but in how the articles should be written)

Design time.

[*]Testing alternative landing pages/copy and its effect on conversion tracking
Design time. At least if you plan a site rather than rely solely on trial and error.

[*]potentially adding microsites to capture traffic from particular keywords that you're ending up just on page 2 for

Lame. I'll admit that one of my clients has half a dozen such sites. Originally they simply did a 301 redirection, but when I convinced them this was pointless (and the tracking figures reflected this) the opted to create mini-sites rather than ditch the domains. And they admitted that this was through fear and ignorance - they didn't want someone else to grab the domains. But it's still and utter waste of time; the main sites are too strong so these mini-sites don't get any traffic.

In effect, each is a site with slightly more verbose versions of different content section from the main sites, but with the added bonus of some keywords in the title. Basically it's a lot of effort for usually little gain (I can think of certain rare circumstances where such an approach worked), generally it means you main site isn't strong enough in certain content areas.

Linkbait is not grey hat. Some linkbait CAN be grey hat,

?

Offering controversial content is not grey hat if the writer genuinely holds those beliefs and they are relevant to the subject.

Quite. But that's not what I was suggesting.

...for example, purely as it would not be up-to-date a few months later - it is an ongoing process..... you need at least some SEO work each month - preferable each week

Indeed. Which is why I suggest periodic review - but it should be client-led, unless you are also a marketing consultant for your client (it does happen). The web is but one facet of a company's public face; only the smallest companies won't have anyone specifically responsible for marketing. And while the client might appreciate monthly statistics and metrics, they ain't going to want to discuss SEO with you every week.

If you suddenly see that Company X has chucked out a new widget, Y, which is appearing on tons of sites (obviously you'll be tracking mention of competitors on other sites (for linkbuilding apart from anything else)) then you might choose to stop your normal SEO work for a moment and build a better widget to stop the spread of theirs. Equally if your visitor numbers suddenly drop you may find it is due to a competitor moving up the SERPS. If you know why they've just moved up the SERPS you know how to fix it - and that's what I'd be inclined to do straight away. Equally, especially where you know the company's competitors are making use of someone's SEO talent it's always worth seeing what they're doing and running with the good ideas (whilst obviously ignoring the bad).

A narrow but fair point. But how many companies are in such a dynamic market that they are creating new products every 5 mins? And how quickly do you think the SEs spider your sites. If you have a very high pagerank and a huge trafic flow then the SEs will be watching every move, but for the 99.9% which constitutes the rest of the web, it takes week (and in some cases months) for the SEs to re-crawl your site.

You cover continual keyword tracking in the original design? I'd love to know how that is possible - you can install analytics etc but the process of tracking it is a continuous one almost by definition.

You are right, but again, it takes time for the web to react to your changes. I usually end up tracking my sites using Analytics (and sometimes with proprietary code) and I normally allow customer to see the same reports. And they are prepared at launch as to what the key metrics mean, and they can track it themselves. I suggest reviewing the site at an interval and often they agree, but some will just leave their site for years without any major change - don't forget, many sites are there to support a bricks & mortar operation rather than to drum up internet trade.

You said 'What the performance and uptime will be like is another question entirely. '.

Yep.

I'm saying that you can't just effectively say 'sod uptime, it's cheap'.

I didn't.

If you ran a small business where your new website was your first step into cyberspace and you're not flogging widgets by the thousand, you are not going to want the SLA with guarantees hosting that Blade007 needs for £xx per month; you'll be paying £xx per year for 99.5% average uptime.. that's 44hrs downtime per year. Not a lot for Bodger and Fixit (builders) or Robin Crook (Chartered Accountant). It may be a HUGE problem for Tesco and a significant one for OcUK, and thus they need to pay extra.

But not everyone does.

Given that the OP was charging around £600 for a 17hr build plus extras, which camp do you think he falls into?

Do you think this client wants to pay for weekly traffic/keyword analysis and a dedicated server with an SLA with guaranteed uptime and a failover cluster? Or do you think a cheaper shared account with a decent aspirational uptime?
 
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fini said:
[*]If the site has a blog, which I tend to recommend to pretty much all clients because of multiple benefits, there's training involved with that (not only in using it but in how the articles should be written)
Design time. [...]
How many site designs do you know that have been delivered with a visual style guide, never mind an editorial style guide?

While I certainly agree with the principle that an overarching 'voice' for a site's content should be given equal consideration to the form [and developed in parallel], I think that your reply to this point is a bit of a utopian stretch.
 
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Design time.
Of course you teach them how to use the website backend as soon as it's set up - but if you've ever actually done that you'll know that within a few weeks the user will have fallen in to bad habits/forgot something so its always worth having a few follow up sessions. In addition if they are writing a blog making sure and teaching them not to link to bad neighbourhoods, to link with decent keywords to their strongest pages etc is an ongoing process.


Design time. At least if you plan a site rather than rely solely on trial and error.
So you know how, for example, 8 different landing pages will convert at design time? Not even SEOMoz was able to do such - they had a quite famous competition to get users to rewrite their landing page which increased their conversion from 0.5 to 2.5%. If SEOMoz can't write the perfect landing page at design time then how is anyone else supposed to?


Lame. I'll admit that one of my clients has half a dozen such sites. Originally they simply did a 301 redirection, but when I convinced them this was pointless (and the tracking figures reflected this) the opted to create mini-sites rather than ditch the domains. And they admitted that this was through fear and ignorance - they didn't want someone else to grab the domains. But it's still and utter waste of time; the main sites are too strong so these mini-sites don't get any traffic.
The mini-sites not getting any traffic (and presumably links) is the fault of the SEO. If an SEO is running mini-sites well they should be getting a ton of linklove and thus traffic.

In effect, each is a site with slightly more verbose versions of different content section from the main sites, but with the added bonus of some keywords in the title. Basically it's a lot of effort for usually little gain (I can think of certain rare circumstances where such an approach worked), generally it means you main site isn't strong enough in certain content areas.
That's your problem - you're doing microsites wrong. Microsites, IMHO at least, should have a fresh and different slant on the content than the main site - one that is less commercial and more informative so that people are more likely to not mind linking to it. e.g. Company X sells biscuits. You find that you are struggling with keyword 'biscuit fan' so you create a microsite www.biscuit-fans-united.com. On that site you run a campaign to bring back Company X's worst selling biscuit. The site is a bit of fun and in no way looks commercial - so people link to it and visit it. Of course as it's mentioning Company X's biscuit it links to it relatively often and naturally gets Company X in people's mind. That, IMHO, is a good microsite.


You said linkbait is grey hat. I'm saying it's like saying that all Scottish people are tight - some may be, but no way are all. The linkbaits I mentioned are white hat, where of course the whole crazyness that ensued after the xbox-playing-prostitutes linkbait (dammit look there's another link!) shows that some can clearly be black-hat.


Indeed. Which is why I suggest periodic review - but it should be client-led, unless you are also a marketing consultant for your client (it does happen). The web is but one facet of a company's public face; only the smallest companies won't have anyone specifically responsible for marketing. And while the client might appreciate monthly statistics and metrics, they ain't going to want to discuss SEO with you every week.
Some clients really do want to know what's happening constantly - but they are the overly-keen ones. Just because you're not discussing it with them though doesn't mean you're not doing it. If I'm working on linkbuilding, for example, I'll provide a linkbuilding report at the end of the month, but I'll have worked on it throughout the month not just once a month. Equally, for at least one of the sites that I do SEO for, I send through blog suggestions multiple times a week as a)they thank me for doing so and b)otherwise I know they'd never blog


A narrow but fair point. But how many companies are in such a dynamic market that they are creating new products every 5 mins?
Not many, but many markets are constantly reacting to news and changing their approach based on that.

And how quickly do you think the SEs spider your sites.
Looking at one of the sites that I do SEO for currently, they're looking at a new page appearing in the SERPS within about half an hour of it going live (maybe a bit less) and the oldest cache for any of the pages I can currently find is January 12th (though that is on an unimportant page that has never changed since site-launch) and almost all the rest are between today and January 22nd.

If you have a very high pagerank and a huge trafic flow then the SEs will be watching every move, but for the 99.9% which constitutes the rest of the web, it takes week (and in some cases months) for the SEs to re-crawl your site.
Recrawl yes, but to actually see new pages appear in the SERPS, which is where you'll see any big changes from competitors, it should be within an hour.



You are right, but again, it takes time for the web to react to your changes. I usually end up tracking my sites using Analytics (and sometimes with proprietary code) and I normally allow customer to see the same reports. And they are prepared at launch as to what the key metrics mean, and they can track it themselves. I suggest reviewing the site at an interval and often they agree, but some will just leave their site for years without any major change - don't forget, many sites are there to support a bricks & mortar operation rather than to drum up internet trade.
None of my clients want to sit their watching their traffic increase or decrease - they'll happily pay me to condense the information down in to a useful report. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want their website to drum up trade through the internet. I deal with one client with a very sensitive area that they work in, that a conversion is merely getting them to contact that business (at which point the company could easily make £30,000 due to them doing so) and they get a decent amount of clients through the web (which is increasing by the day :D ).

If you ran a small business where your new website was your first step into cyberspace and you're not flogging widgets by the thousand, you are not going to want the SLA with guarantees hosting that Blade007 needs for £xx per month; you'll be paying £xx per year for 99.5% average uptime.. that's 44hrs downtime per year. Not a lot for Bodger and Fixit (builders) or Robin Crook (Chartered Accountant). It may be a HUGE problem for Tesco and a significant one for OcUK, and thus they need to pay extra.
Sure, but this goes back to £12 a year hosting, which was the original proposition. Hosting for £50 a year will suit many small businesses, but you wont find any host that I would call reliable offering £12 a year hosting. There is a bottom end beyond which it is just too cheap and you know that you'll be getting a terrible service because of it.
 
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On that site you run a campaign to bring back Company X's worst selling biscuit. The site is a bit of fun and in no way looks commercial - so people link to it and visit it. Of course as it's mentioning Company X's biscuit it links to it relatively often and naturally gets Company X in people's mind.

A great approach. But again, it's marketing. Even if you were on a retainer, you can't just go and decide to run such a competition in the customers name. Sure you can suggest the idea, but how many biscuit manufacturers hand their marketing lead to the external web developer? Great idea - on that would get mentioned in an regular review. Not one you would run within the 1st 3 months after launch.

You said linkbait is grey hat.

I said "White-hat techniques include ... [snipped]. Grey techniques include... [snipped]."

It is you that repeatedly assert that I think linkbait is grey hat. Whereas in fact, it was I who first correctly identified that much linkbait are very worthy whit hat techniques, but some can be considered grey hat and should be avoid. And subsequently you have said the same thing - so why the repeated efforts to misquote me.

Not many, but many markets are constantly reacting to news and changing their approach based on that.

I could be wrong, but I'd speculate that the vast majority or sites (not companies) are fairly static.

If I am wrong, it means that you'd only have a portfolio of half a dozen clients and you'd be incredibly rich. Every site you develop has built-in residuals; after half a dozen sites have been developed, you'd have no time in you working to do any new developments; you'd be spending all your time doing SEO and running their marketing campaigns.

But I suspect not - like most other devs, you'll have a few hours each month of ongoing work, but the majority of sites are left alone or are subject to scheduled reviews.

None of my clients want to sit their watching their traffic increase or decrease - they'll happily pay me to condense the information down in to a useful report. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want their website to drum up trade through the internet.

How often do you run these reports and how much do they pay you?

A company I work for was in the position of actually not wanting to generate any further business. They want their website improved to provide extra information to their customers to minimise on the time spent by Customer Service and Sales staff on handling calls and emails. They didn't want any extra trade because manufacturing capacity was increasing fast but not fast enough for the demand. [Since October that has changed entirely since the order book was emptied when upstream customers cancelled all their orders!]

Ok, it's an unusual scenario, but my point is, not every site is a new Amazon.com, or a new Digg. For some companies, websites are like printed materials, advertisements or telephone lines - another means of communicating with customers. Virtually all websites want to be found, but in different ways and for different reasons. One size does not fit all.

Sure, but this goes back to £12 a year hosting, which was the original proposition. Hosting for £50 a year will suit many small businesses, but you wont find any host that I would call reliable offering £12 a year hosting. There is a bottom end beyond which it is just too cheap and you know that you'll be getting a terrible service because of it.

We don't know what that £12 pa host entails. If it's a fair slice of a small reseller account passed on at a low profit margin, then fine; it might be perfectly acceptable. OK, I'm skeptical too. But my point was that the company might not want or need bulletproof hosting, certainly not from Day 1. Plenty of devs offer el cheapo, suck-it-and-see hosting for nervous first-timers; the idea being that as soon as the customer sees the visitors arrive and are reassured by the impact of the site, they can upgrade to something more sustainable.

I'm creating a site for my brother. He's a builder and joiner and for years he swore that no-one in the building trade had or needed websites. In fact he never advertised anywhere, in any way. Cue the credit crunch and his word-of-mouth referrals are thinning out and now he's think the web might be help after all. He's not going to need much capacity anyway, but I'm giving him a very modest account on my server (at cost). He doesn't want to pay £00's per year when he's not sure of the benefit and he's contemplating laying off staff.

Back to the OPs post; his client is probably a new startup or a cottage industry. £600 for website and hosting is possibly a small fortune to them. All the extras that you might do for your larger corporate clients are going to be of no interest to them yet, if ever.
 
What happens when you guys with standard reseller accounts get a smart customer who does a myipneighbors check?

(this happened to me once) - I was sitting in the director's office and they did a reverse IP check to see how many websites we had on our server.

We already had our own server IP so they only saw our own customers .... which they could see on our online portfolio - they became a client.

If they would have seen 1000 other websites on there serious questions would have been asked. When you move up a level to the >£5,000 bracket people become more cautious - and rightly so, and want to know what they're getting is solid.
 
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