web design question

[sunama]

Following on from this thread, I have decided to get some quotes from about 15 companies, to build a simple website with no Flash, animations or complicated graphics.

Its early days yet, as I only emailed them a few hours ago. But I have just recieved an email and he states that he will be used Dotnet programming and MSSQL server.

Consider that this will be a basic HTML website, with no e-commerce. The only thing of note is that there will be a form, for clients to fill out, which will get forwarded to the company email address. Now, bearing this in mind, would 'Dotnet programming and SQL' be required?

 

[sunama]

I'm actually outsourcing to India.

I've only had 1 quote so far of US$550.

I'm still waiting on the other 15 companies to get back to me.

I'm wondering if some companies bs their clients by saying they will use SQL, Flash, Dreamweaver and everything under the Sun to make it look like they will be doing a lot of work, when in fact they will finish the job in 2 days, using a basic HTML editor for the coding and Photoshop for the graphics.

 

[sunama]

After doing some research, it would appear that most developers stipulate the 50% upfront, 50% after the job is complete.

The problem is that if this is the case, how can you walk away if they are messing you around?

Personally though, because the website I want is dead simple, I honestly can't see them taking ages and ages.

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[sunama]

By the sounds of it you only need a HTML website so if they start qouting things like SQL flash etc ask why it is needed. I personally would avoid flash.

Its possible that they think that I have no idea of how websites are built and that the more names they drop, the more impressed I will be. I'm completely bemused as to why my simple website would require anything SQL related. There is no need for any database.

I don't know if you have done this but I would also ask to see examples of previous websites they have done. It will give you an idea of how good they are as a designer.

I've already looked at their portfolio and it looks decent.

Another thing to note if you pay by paypal you are not covered by the paypal guarantee. The guarantee does not cover digital media. So before you pay make sure you are happy with what has been done.

The problem here is that they ask for 50% up front. Which means, at best, I could end up losing 50% of the budget, should they mess up and force me to go elsewhere.

 

[sunama]

Speaking of which, that's why I'd recommend someone more local. Websites aren't 'fire-and-forget' implementations; they need constant nurturing if they are to become a core element of one's business. This means frequently conversing with a designer/developer.

Such conversations give you a better idea as to whether they're good enough to forge a long-lasting successful relationship with, or just another of the squillion fly-by-night charlies after the short-term buck.

Here's my thinking. I'm starting up a new company. After a few months, it could go bust. In fact, most start ups do go bust and shut down. So, what I want is a website that puts my new company on the map, but doesn't necessarily set the world on fire. Furthermore, as with most startups, money is tight.

My plan is to get the a basic website done on the cheap.
Get the business going.
Once it is pulling in a good revenue stream, I shall appoint a local web developer to update and maintain it. The simple updates, I can do myself. Any major updates will be done by the appointed local web developer.

I can see where you are coming from with regards to getting someone local (in London), from the get go, but this would not be financially viable as we are a startup and not a multi-national corporation.

 

[sunama]

£1000 to be viewable online, by anyone, with a professional image as a new start-up doesn't seem expensive to me, but that's probably because I know how much big multi-national corporations pay for websites

Hehehe.

I was actually reading a thread on this forum, regarding the rates that web developers charge. Some were talking about £100/hour and that a website will have a team of people working on it. The team costing many £100s/hour. I was quite shocked by this at the time, so now it doesnt surprise me that big organisations will pay £1000s/month.

 

[sunama]

In India though, it is quite normal to negotiate on the cost of an item/service. So perhaps, they expect me to negotiate the price to something closer to $450. Also, in India, they tend to rip foreigners off, as they seem to think foreigners have money trees growing in their back gardens.

 

[sunama]

Due us being very very busy at work we've just outsourced a cms based site to India. Overall the hopurly rate worked out at around £4.40 per hour!

Thats impressively low. Do you know what the name of the Indian company was?

More quotes are coming through. I've had one as high as US$1200. Perhaps this Indian company think I was born yesterday.

Ive had a quote of around US$430 and their portfolio looks the most impressive out of all the companies I've had quotes from so far.
http://www.india-designers.com/websites.html

 

[sunama]

If it's literally just a contact form storing emails/name etc. then I'd say go for a host that uses PHP ionstead of ASP.NET, as hosting for ASP.NET and MSSQL databases is generally more.

Noted.

 

[sunama]

I hear what you are saying Simon, but sometimes in business you simply cannot afford to fork out the sums of money needed to get British company to do the job (properly). Hence, you have to settle for 2nd, 3rd or 4th best. As a startup, this is quite common, where finances end up compromising the quality of products being used to market the company.

My plan is get a website up, on the cheap, then start trading. (Take note that the website will only form a small part of the company's advertising). Once we have a consistent revenue stream, we can look at improving/upgrading/re-designing the website. My aim is to look at upgrades (in all areas of the company), in approximately 12 months.

Its obvious you work in web design and obviously you feel passionate about websites and their design, but as someone who is starting up a company, the website represents only a fraction of things that I need to think about as part of the running of the company.

One thing you did say is that the websites shown here are dated. Can you give examples of websites that are not dated?

Thanks.

 

[sunama]

I guess sunama isn't looking for a mutts nutts website, what he's looking for is something to help get a business off the ground and establish a web presence, for a tight budget.

That about sums it up.

I'll post up the quotes that I've had, once I accept a bid, just so others who look at this thread in the future might get an idea what Indian web developers charge.

BTW. I sent off for a request for a quote from a single Chinese company. They got back to me in good time, but quoted something that was totally ridiculous. I feel that some people in foreign countries think that those who live in the UK own money plants.

 

[sunama]

That was a great reply; very informative and it answered a lot of questions regarding SEO (which I've asked in my other thread).

I've looked at some of the CSS websites you linked to. They do indeed look very clean and modern, however, the developers who made them, do charge a fair penny (one company was charging 1900 euros as their starter/basic/cheapest package).

I think if and when my business takes off, say a year after launch, I would certainly look to get my website redesigned from scratch by one these guys, with a budget of around £1000-£1500, however as a startup, I feel that I am making the right decision to get the job done on the cheap.

I shall keep you guys posted on how these Indian devlopers build my site and the costs involved, if only to give others an idea of how the Indian developers work with their clients.

Thank you for your help and advice Simon.

 

[sunama]

I'll dig out the link in the morning at work for you.

Thanks

I really hope you don't live to regret getting your site done on the cheap, especially as you're interested in using the website as a tool for sales and a way to represent your business on the web. Get the initial design wrong or done naff and you can give out all the wrong signals to prospective clients/customers.

Its not going to be the to the standard that I would expect if I paid £1500 to a developer in the UK. However, as we are a 2 man startup operation, we must scrimp and save at every point. Otherwise we risk going under before we have even started. So, if it is a choice between going bust in less than 2 months or surviving for longer with a lesser website, I choose the later.

 

[sunama]

Right. Update time.

Working with off-shore designers is a slow going process. Its also slow because I myself, can't give them feedback fast enough as I busy with other things.

Here is the link to the latest version of the homepages.

If anyone wants to give any feedback, ideas or critique, then feel free to do so.

Right now, I'm looking to finalise the work on the homepage next Tuesday/Wednesday, with the rest of the pages to be completed within 10 days from that point.

The initial quote was about £240. Payment was via Paypal. 50% before the job, 50% after the job.

They say that the price includes upto 10 iterations/alterations/updates.

So far, they have done everything I have asked of them, without issue, but lets just see how things develop, as we introduce more pages to the website.

They also have a unique way of communicating - they have set up a website, where messaging happens. Any comments write, any files I upload, gets notified to the designers involved. So far, I am happy with this method of communicating.

I'm writing all this information, just in case someone else might want to use an off shore web developer - this will give them an idea of what is involved.

 

[sunama]

Ask them what parts of the site will be text and which parts images.

When I had to outsource a small site they had a tendency to cut corners and simply use an image, where there should have been text. E.g. your yellow box at the top should contain a background image and the writing to the left should be text.

I see where you are going. The textand the photo will probably all be part of the same image. It wont be text. What advantage does your method have over using a single image?

Tell them to use better Anchor text than 'Home' for the menu too - maybe a well keyword for your site.

Or main key word would be 'Removals', but that just wouldn't work on the website.

Unless I get rid of the word 'Home' completely and have the homepage selectable by clicking the header (ie. the logo or 'London UK Removals').

I see what you mean though - modern website tend to not have the word 'Home'.

When you the site developed I'd be interested to see the HTML/CSS, as the company I used coded it pretty poorly imo.

Sure thing. Its likely they will use lots of tables and no css. For the price though, I'm not complaining.

 

[sunama]

I think the code is going to be full of tables. They will use shortcuts where ever possible to keep costs as low as possible. At the price though, it is to be expected.

EDIT: I just looked up basecamp software and what they are using is something very similar. The version that I saw on the basecamp website looked more advanced though. It does work. I would've hated having to do the whole thing via emails, which would've been a little tedious.

 

[sunama]

I was actually thinking about doing away with the logo altogether. It depends on the overall look. As the company develops the logo can always be added on.

Another method might be to use the company name as the logo itself (something which a lot of companies do these days).

What is wrong with "Times new roman"?

 

[sunama]

Anyone doing their job properly will be using ASP.NET or PHP for your form.

How would I be able to tell what they are using (asp, php)? Is it simply a case of asking them?

 

[sunama]

OK gotcha.
Thanks.

 

[sunama]

Portfolio of previous work.
Price.
Speed of email responses.

...in that order.

I had a quote as high as £1200, which I thought was scandalous. I had quotes as low as US$290, however, their previous work was akin to the websites which were made in 1998.

EDIT: Do bear in mind that because we are not trading yet, money is tight. The idea is to get a web presence for the lowest cost. Once we start trading, my aim would be to have a brand new website built by a local web developer, with a budget of around £1500 - £2k. At £240, in effect, this is a throw-away website, which can be discarded without too much financial damage.