Web Development as a Job

[SpicyDuck]

Does anybody here do Web Development on their own, self-employed? The more I think about it, the more I'd love to get into the game. But then, I think that maybe the whole market is saturated and it'd be a lot of work, for very little return.

What do you think? Is it possible to make a decent salary this way? I have a plan, and that involves a very low salary of around £8-10k. Somehow though, I think this is asking for a lot. Maybe I'm wrong. I really don't know, so I'd appreciate some input from people who've done or heard about similar situations.

Thanks.

 

[z3b3dy]

I do and have been doing it for quite a long time now. It's perfectly possible to earn a decent salary but like all these things it comes down to experience and when you're self-employed a bit of luck getting the right clients.

 

[Sic]

Get a full-time job in a small company doing development. Watch how they run the company, note how they make mistakes and what you'd do to instead.

I think, to make a decent amount of money you should have quite a bit of experience in your field, too.

 

[chronicbint]

I just quit my full time job to have a go at being self employed. I am a developer and not a designer(I dont do graphics).

 

[z3b3dy]

I just quit my full time job to have a go at being self employed. I am a developer and not a designer(I dont do graphics).

Out of interest how long had you been developing for before you quit and what reasons made you go self-employed? Do you have a set of clients built up already?

 

[Adz]

If you're doing this self employed, you need to be a good salesman as well as a good web developer. In fact, in my experience, the former is a lot more important. You could be the best web designer in the world and still have no clients if nobody knows about you. Also, with limited/no professional experience you're going to have to blag it a bit to get the contracts and be comfortable doing that.

You've also got to keep on top of client accounts (make sure you're paid on time/at all), investigate and invest in advertising opportunities, keep accurate records and fill in a tax return and, if the business takes off, deal with the VAT.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead with it - I believe you could make a very good living from it. I'm just saying there's a lot more to it than designing websites.

Regarding promotion, if your work is up to scratch, see if you can find a reputable webhosting company to set up a reciprocal arrangement with - they refer clients to you who are looking for web design and you refer hosting clients to them.

Best of luck with it .

 

[SpicyDuck]

If you're doing this self employed, you need to be a good salesman as well as a good web developer. In fact, in my experience, the former is a lot more important. You could be the best web designer in the world and still have no clients if nobody knows about you. Also, with limited/no professional experience you're going to have to blag it a bit to get the contracts and be comfortable doing that.

You've also got to keep on top of client accounts (make sure you're paid on time/at all), investigate and invest in advertising opportunities, keep accurate records and fill in a tax return and, if the business takes off, deal with the VAT.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead with it - I believe you could make a very good living from it. I'm just saying there's a lot more to it than designing websites.

Regarding promotion, if your work is up to scratch, see if you can find a reputable webhosting company to set up a reciprocal arrangement with - they refer clients to you who are looking for web design and you refer hosting clients to them.

Best of luck with it .

Thanks Adz. I was already aware of the salesman aspect, and I know I can do it - Having given presentations and lessons to students of all ages, teaching English.

Most of all, I'm extremey passionate about design and development for the internet.

I don't mind doing a little blagging but, at the same time, I want my service to be as honest and fairly priced as possible. That, and a lot of hard work, should see me going in the right direction.

One thing I know nothing about is all the stuff related to tax and getting myself registered, but that'll all come in due course. I'm sure one of my uncles has experience of this nature, so I can ask him.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

I used to freelance web work, but tbh it's far from what it sounds like. 9/10 jobs are installing exisiting software packages and tweaking them, the 1/10 job is still minor development.

Best method for me was to piggy back from friends, taking the jobs they didn't want/couldn't do for one reason or another, then use that for building up portfolio. After that, I could find my own clients which were proper jobs, but still a majority just involved installing a package and tweaking.

 

[SpicyDuck]

What do you think of a 8-10k annual income? That's not something I'll need to reach until the beginning of around Christmas time this year, but it'd be nice to be able to actually reach that point by then.

 

[chesterstu]

Outside of my normal job i do web development and last year i earned £9.5k. Admittly one job was £4k for a hotel booking website.

You can make the money you just need to have the right contacts. I got lucky, done one for my dad's friend who is in the Round Table and he told his chums about how good i was and it went from there. I would never give up the day job though, it is too cut throat and the market is very saturated at every budget from a few hundred quid to a few hundred thousand.

Biggest bit of advice though is make sure you write a spec and get the client to sign it off making them fully aware of what they are not getting. Otherwise when you are closing the project there will be 'bugs' raised that are actually changes, wasting your time

 

[Mickey]

I would never give up the day job though, it is too cut throat and the market is very saturated at every budget from a few hundred quid to a few hundred thousand.

No, it really isn't.

If you're any good then you will quickly find yourself very busy and having to turn down offers. The problem is, not many people are any good, these people tend to moan that the market is saturated instead of looking at why people aren't coming back for more or making reccomendations.

OvertoneBliss: It's perfectly possible to earn £8-10k in a month if you are decent and most importantly HAVE THE NERVE TO ASK FOR IT.

Most people undervalue themselves and think "I'd not pay that much, why would the client", justify why you're worth the money and don't be afraid to walk away and wait for the decent paying jobs, otherwise you can endup wasting all of your time on rubbish little jobs for numptys who will drive you insane.


Mick.

 

[SpicyDuck]

Although I asked the question, I agree with Mickey. A lot of people out there just don't have a passion for Web Development; they're just jumping on the bandwagon and wondering why they can't sell 10-minute Wordpress themes for £100 a pop.

Or they follow a Photoshop Tutorial to make a 'Chrome Effect', then go about thinking they're the dogs ******** for doing so. I think the key here, is for me to be innovative and unique in my approach. We all have the same tools, but we shouldn't all use them the same way.

I just have to work on getting a portfolio together. Bashing together 5 years worth of self-study, mistakes, discoveries and a whole lot else.

Mickey, it's not 8k per month that I want, although it would be nice haha, but per year would do very well for what I have in mind. At least, initially.

 

[Mickey]

Mickey, it's not 8k per month that I want, although it would be nice haha, but per year would do very well for what I have in mind. At least, initially.

I know you said year, just thought i'd say what you could earn if you wanted to Would you really get by on £10k a year? It doesn't stretch far, especially if you put a bit back into getting new equipment etc.. Also remember, working keeps you busy and stops you spending money, if you can get all your money from 1 day a week (which you could easily), you'll spend the other 6 days spending more than you planned

 

[Dj_Jestar]

What do you think of a 8-10k annual income? That's not something I'll need to reach until the beginning of around Christmas time this year, but it'd be nice to be able to actually reach that point by then.

Once established, you'll easily make that. Quite frankly, you could make 4 times that with hardly breaking a sweat. Initially, no you won't, however.

 

[Mickey]

Once established, you'll easily make that. Quite frankly, you could make 4 times that with hardly breaking a sweat. Initially, no you won't, however.

You can easily get to that level within a couple of months (again, assuming you're any good). It's less than one £1k job a month.

The best course of action is to get yourself on freelancers.net. Join the freelancers.net email forum and the workalone.co.uk email forums. You can get good contacts and pickup jobs through them. Also, get yourself on IRC, into web design & development channels (although it's not always a good idea to take direct work from people in them, you can get good contacts and referrals).


Mick.

 

[SpicyDuck]

The reason why I'm only aiming for 8-10k, is that I plan to live in and around Asia for a year, two or three. Maybe more.

Lived there for a year before and, as well as being better (imo), living costs are much much lower. The only problem I see with that thus far, is I won't be able to meet clients physically. I'm currently trying to figure out a way around this.

As I said, I've lived in China before and I have basic usage of the language and a basic understanding of the culture. With that, my skills and a Chinese friend willing to help, I will also be aiming my services at the ever-growing market over there. The same might apply to Japan with a couple of friends I have there also.

But that's thinking a little too far ahead for the moment. Just thoughts.

 

[Augmented]

As I said, I've lived in China before and I have basic usage of the language and a basic understanding of the culture. With that, my skills and a Chinese friend willing to help, I will also be aiming my services at the ever-growing market over there. The same might apply to Japan with a couple of friends I have there also.

Interesting, sounds cool. But if living costs are lower in China, surely the market rate over there will reflect that? And I would have though the web-dev industry in China is already very saturated, being one of the largest websurfing populations (200+ million people)? Also need to consider potential problems working with international clients if your connection's going to be filtered by the government. Is even 10K feasible when you're an 'outsider'? Japan, I would have thought, would be much more difficult with the whole gaijin complex going on.

Not knocking the idea, I'm actually quite curious about it. I'd love to move over to Japan to work as a web dev, but I can't really see it being possible as a freelancer, escpecially with the high living costs.

 

[SpicyDuck]

You raise some interesting points. Japan, as you've mentioned, does have extremely high living costs, especially compared to Mainland China, Thailand and other Asian countries.

My idea though, is to do development for all countries around the world, via online communication and telephone. Although this may cut-out a lot of potential clients (due to not being able to meet them), I get the impression that a lot of work is done this way, regardless.

Also, although a lot of Chinese are proud to be themselves and to work with eachother, the prospect of having a foreigner 'with' them, does excite them quite a bit. More so if they're doing business with western customers, too. You raise a valid point about the living costs reflecting the market rate, but I'm sure it'll be fine for businesses based in the larger cities, such as Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen and especially Beijing.

10k is definitely feasible in the larger cities. During my time out there, I met a lot of foreigners teaching English who were making more than that in some cases. It isn't rare at all for somebody with experience. I think the same will apply to web dev, mainly because of the foreigners touch.

Japan and South Korea will be very tough cookies, but I want the experience and knowledge of designing for all of these markets. The slight variations in audience, culture and language will prove a very big challenge, but it would be priceless and valuable knowledge at the end of it all.

As a nice little present, I get to continue my study of all these interesting languages, cultures, wonderful people and so much more. The way forward, for me at least, is definitely self-employment that allows me to travel. Making this work is something I'm entirely dedicated to.

 

[Augmented]

Also, although a lot of Chinese are proud to be themselves and to work with each other, the prospect of having a foreigner 'with' them, does excite them quite a bit. More so if they're doing business with western customers, too. You raise a valid point about the living costs reflecting the market rate, but I'm sure it'll be fine for businesses based in the larger cities, such as Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen and especially Beijing.

That's interesting to hear about the Chinese. I don't really know much about the culture, but yes I can certainly see the benefits from their standpoint of having a westerner working for them.

As a nice little present, I get to continue my study of all these interesting languages, cultures, wonderful people and so much more. The way forward, for me at least, is definitely self-employment that allows me to travel. Making this work is something I'm entirely dedicated to.

Nice. I agree it would be excellent work experience as well as a personal experience .