'Webber to quit F1 at end of season'

Psycho Ned · 7 May 2013 at 19:03

2010 was Marks shot at being World champion, sticking it in the wall in Korea did him in.

Now Vettel is the overwhelming number 1 at Red Bull he's never going to get another shot so I can understand if he's a bit fed up with the whole situation and fancies a new challenge.

Neither Toro Rosso driver has earned replacing him though but what's the point in having them at Toro Rosso if they aren't good enough to be promoted that's pretty much all they are there for!

Skeeter · 7 May 2013 at 22:11

Jesus this place. Every discussion just becomes a "post your source" fest whenever someone doesn't like what's posted.

Why don't you post some evidence as to why I'm wrong? Rather than just your opinion of why I'm wrong.

As for my 'opinion'...

2011
Di Resta 13th
Sutil 9th

2012
Di Resta 14th
Hulkenburg 11th

And...

According to The Independent newspaper, Force India owner and boss Vijay Mallya decided to oust Liuzzi because di Resta, who won last year's DTM championship, was Mercedes' favoured choice for the seat alongside Adrian Sutil.
Mercedes, with a long-term relationship with the rookie Scot and also Force India's engine supplier, is believed to have told the team that it could save a multi-million KERS bill if di Resta was given the drive.

http://archive2.paddocktalk.com/story-156509.html

According to an interview with the Scot in Britain's Independent newspaper, his position may have been helped by support from Mercedes - for whom he raced in the DTM and F3 - and the offer of free KERS technology for Vijay Mallya's midfield team. As a result, di Resta's stock immediately rose above that of F1 veteran Tonio Liuzzi, despite the Italian still having a year to run on his contract.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/167789/1/kers_deal_cemented_di_resta_seat.html

Widely reported, and I thought everyone knew about it?

Edit: Found the original Independent article. $10m to kick Liuzzi out of the seat.

The reasons why team owner Vijay Mallya chose not to honour a contract with Liuzzi and to give Di Resta a drive instead this year may well revolve around the free KERS system – which improves acceleration – that Mercedes is believed to have used as a $10m carrot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...to-aim-for-2253346.html?origin=internalSearch

So I stand by my original 'opinion'. He is not in the seat purely on merit, it was bought for him, and there are other better drivers out there, as demonstrated by him being beaten by his team mates every year, and finishing in the second half of the WDC standing.
So if RBR don't want him for his free engines or KERS (they already get effectively free engines from Renault), and he's clearly not one of the fastest drivers available, why would they sign him?

Sliver · 7 May 2013 at 23:25

Skeeter said:
Jesus this place. Every discussion just becomes a "post your source" fest whenever someone doesn't like what's posted.

Welcome to reason and rational debate Skeeter.

I still stand by my original post. I fail to see why it's not a reasonable expectation.

When Webber does leave, whenever that might be, I'd hope that Paul Di Resta can grab his seat.

Now you can attack my position in any way you see fit, and you have chosen to do just that for some reason. But you have failed to convince me that I was being unreasonable in any way.

Sorry, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

The_Abyss · 8 May 2013 at 00:03

Skeeter said:
You do have to question the Red Bull talent program. In 15 years they have produced.... Vettel. Everyone else has been luke warm at best, and dropped.

In 15 years they have produced a triple WDC and a triple championship. 1 in every 5 years may not sound impressive but it stacks up very well with other teams. Even more so when you look at the last 5 years rather than the past 15.

~Mike~ · 8 May 2013 at 07:40

The_Abyss said:
In 15 years they have produced a triple WDC and a triple championship. 1 in every 5 years may not sound impressive but it stacks up very well with other teams. Even more so when you look at the last 5 years rather than the past 15.

Possibly because Red Bull have put 99% of there focus into Vettel.

413x · 8 May 2013 at 08:12

I thought porche were not joining now

I have never really seen why everyone likes him tbh. I don't think he's that good. But like massa

413x · 8 May 2013 at 08:13

The_Abyss said:
In 15 years they have produced a triple WDC and a triple championship. 1 in every 5 years may not sound impressive but it stacks up very well with other teams. Even more so when you look at the last 5 years rather than the past 15.

Much more down to the car I would say

Skeeter · 8 May 2013 at 09:33

The_Abyss said:
In 15 years they have produced a triple WDC and a triple championship. 1 in every 5 years may not sound impressive but it stacks up very well with other teams. Even more so when you look at the last 5 years rather than the past 15.

There is a massive volume of drivers going through the Red Bull program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Junior_Team#Current_Drivers

35 by my count. Maybe Vettel has just created a bar thats too high so everyone else in the program looks rubbish?

al4x said:
I thought porche were not joining now

The rumour is joining Porsche for their LMP1 campaign in the WEC and Le Mans, not in F1.

Skeeter · 8 May 2013 at 09:38

Sliver said:
Welcome to reason and rational debate Skeeter.

I still stand by my original post. I fail to see why it's not a reasonable expectation.

Now you can attack my position in any way you see fit, and you have chosen to do just that for some reason. But you have failed to convince me that I was being unreasonable in any way.

Sorry, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

You said you hope he gets the seat, I said it would be very unlikely, you then said that he is one of the best drivers available and would get a seat regardless of having ties to Mercedes. Its this second bit that I questioned, and provided the requested evidence for.

I've no issue with you hoping he gets the seat, I just find it highly unlikely, for the reasons above. If your so confident I'm wrong find some evidence to prove it, seeing as you are so amenable to evidence

.

Guerrilla · 8 May 2013 at 11:01

If Webber does leave RB I hope they do go for Raikkonen, it'd be interesting him and Vettel could be a good challenge for them both.

Would be a shame for Lotus though, Kimi seems like a good fit there and think they'd struggle to replace him.

Skeeter · 8 May 2013 at 11:03

Kimi wants teams that don't tie him to a gazillion media and PR days, and let him be himself. RBR would be a good fit. Horner surely must have his eye on him?

JeditOjanen · 8 May 2013 at 13:02

Skeeter said:
There is a massive volume of drivers going through the Red Bull program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Junior_Team#Current_Drivers

35 by my count. Maybe Vettel has just created a bar thats too high so everyone else in the program looks rubbish?

No, it's just that Red Bull management are rubbish. The best driver to come through their program is Jaime Alguersuari, and they dropped him because he isn't called Sebastian.

tummelv · 8 May 2013 at 13:05

Maybe RBR and Lotus should do a swap for kimi and Webber.

Merlin5 · 8 May 2013 at 18:47

desires said:
I've always felt like he's been incredibly unlucky with his time at Red Bull compared to Vettel which is a shame as he's always been the most likable person on the grid imo.

As is Jensen. Therein lies the problem. If you're too likeable, it probably means you don't have that nastier streak that would actually make you succeed more. Which kind of touches on my thread about what makes a great driver. Webber might just as well quit because I don't ever see him becoming champion, with any team.

JeditOjanen · 9 May 2013 at 12:43

Merlin5 said:
Webber might just as well quit because I don't ever see him becoming champion, with any team.

That's not a reason to quit. You could say the same thing about most of the drivers on the grid, many of whom will never even win a race. Webber should quit when he can't cut it any more, like Coulthard did before him.

Indy500 · 9 May 2013 at 13:12

JeditOjanen said:
No, it's just that Red Bull management are rubbish. The best driver to come through their program is Jaime Alguersuari, and they dropped him because he isn't called Sebastian.

Their driver line-up decisions have been questionable, yes. Also, what's up with that former list entirely ignoring non-formula car drivers? Red Bull had a Nascar program and team until the end of 2011 for example (with Brian Vickers and Kasey Kahne being their most successful Sprint Cup drivers).

Allmendinger went there when they picked Scott Speed instead for F1 (although he also was transferred to RBR Nascar later). Cole Whitt, a USAC champion was going to be in Sprint Cup this year had they not withdrawn (he had sponsorship from Red Bull from 2007-2011). He was Danica Patrick's teammate for the 2012 Nationwide season as well.

V F · 10 May 2013 at 01:46

JeditOjanen said:
That's not a reason to quit. You could say the same thing about most of the drivers on the grid, many of whom will never even win a race. Webber should quit when he can't cut it any more, like Coulthard did before him.

Going to a lesser car is? Coulthard has never been where Webber was.

Skeeter · 10 May 2013 at 08:41

Indy500 said:
Their driver line-up decisions have been questionable, yes. Also, what's up with that former list entirely ignoring non-formula car drivers? Red Bull had a Nascar program and team until the end of 2011 for example (with Brian Vickers and Kasey Kahne being their most successful Sprint Cup drivers).

Allmendinger went there when they picked Scott Speed instead for F1 (although he also was transferred to RBR Nascar later). Cole Whitt, a USAC champion was going to be in Sprint Cup this year had they not withdrawn (he had sponsorship from Red Bull from 2007-2011). He was Danica Patrick's teammate for the 2012 Nationwide season as well.

That list was for the Red Bull Junior team which is the primarily European based single seater program designed to bring drivers into Formula 1. It's different to the American young driver program, or any of the numerous teams they run or sponsor in other series around the world.

The Junior Team is about talent development where the drivers get support and backing from Red Bull and Helmut Marko. It's not just a list of drivers who have driven for them. Intact a lot on that list haven't ever driven in a Red Bull team.

Those NASCAR drivers were never part of the Red Bull Junior Team program.