US: Westworld
- Thread starter the shadow
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It's an extended final episode and I'm hoping they can tie it all up well even if it means throwing a, plausible (borne out through what's happened so far in the series), curve ball plot twist. I'd love a good Bruce Willis/Keyser Soze moment.
No matter what happens, all I can say is I have very much enjoyed this series.
No matter what happens, all I can say is I have very much enjoyed this series.
However, as we know from first episodes - William is about to marry Logan's sister (the lady on the lost picture). If Logan dies, William naturally becomes the next in line to Delos family fortune?
William is going to have to undergo a complete character transformation soon (one could say he has flipped out already by butchering all those hosts) . From being in love with Dolores and thinking she is alive he has gone to raping her and having her terrified of him. It could be it's therefore Logan and maybe Logan kills William (hence why dolores hates/fears him)
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Always thought it would be more likely Logan is Ed Harris' character. Logan is the rich one not William.
It could be argued that she does know. It would suit her character to not really care.
The tech guys with Meave, well yeah, they could have got out of that really. Although the asian looking dude is besotted with her and secretly wants to program rather than butcher so it appeals to him to help her.
It's a great series IMO.
It could be argued that she does know. It would suit her character to not really care.
The tech guys with Meave, well yeah, they could have got out of that really. Although the asian looking dude is besotted with her and secretly wants to program rather than butcher so it appeals to him to help her.
It's a great series IMO.
Well in the scene she found out she seemed to care and called Ford a "monster" I think is what she said.
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You have to remember that Arnold died "before the park opened" during rollout of the first gen hosts about 35 years before Theresa. We know this because his death is discussed by Logan and William who have interest in investing in the park and that happens 30 years before Theresa's death. So in short, Theresa never met Arnold because he was already gone "before her time", in fact during her first verbal match with Fird at the agawa plantation she recalls visiting the park with park parents when she was young.
My complaint is that if it's going to be complicated with multiple timelines then it's too much for a series that you watch once a week for a short while each year over many seasons. It's fine to rely on visual cues etc when you're operating over a 2-3 hour film, say, but it doesn't work with a long reason because it requires an unreasonable level of recall for the viewer which would, frankly, be quite wearisome. We shouldn't need to make notes on who was wearing what and when and what they were doing. I'll be disappointed if that is what is going on because it's overly complex for this medium.
Makes it even more baffling that over a 30 year period there wouldn't be a wiki page about Ford and Arnold creating this awesome Wild West world where you can see a picture of its creators!
Maybe she was a host as well. It'll help me sleep easier tonight
I knew this was going to be the case because it's created by Jonathan Nolan. The man writes alternative time frames and alternative timelines for living - he wrote Memento, he wrote Interstellar and rewritten the one Terminator sequel that ended up to be an alternative paradox timeline prequel (the one where John doesn't send Reese back in time, but exists himself which means that a version of Reese had already gone back in time and fathered him). It was clear as day that he is going to time mind screw out of it to another degree.
I also think we reached the stage and the kind of viewership these days where we deserve to have something intelligent on TV - beyond three deaths per episode endless spin offs of episodic short arcs - you know - another NCIS: Nova Scotia or CSI: Little Arlington. We deserve a channel to tell us a story that would be too long for a stand alone movie, something properly presented in form of 50 instalments as long as it doesn't take shortcuts, easy way outs and it exhausts all the questions. Because, that's why it would be on TV. To stop cutting bits out for the benefit of running time. It might just be the only medium to coherently present long story arc, if HBO proves to be successful again with the way their TV shows are made.
Indeed. I love it when links are made to real life history/culture as well like the Bach's The Well tempered Clavier link I posted earlier.
Also, with regard to that work by Bach...- "It is also worth noting that Bach’s composition of the same name features predominantly fugues. A fugue, musically, is based on the repetition of a series of notes. As the notes repeat they change slightly, thus forming a series of circles that have ever growing variations. "
Soldato
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It's when Ford sits down to have a drink with him - he talks about Arnold, but not in a 'he knew him' way, more that he knew he died 35 years ago, and that him dying almost took the park with him, but the MIB saved the park. Which is exactly what William and Logan were talking about: Their company (Quite obviously Delos) buying the park because Arnold's death sent the park into a downward spiral, nearly killing it.
No-one knows who Arnold is or what he looks like, apart from Ford - when William and Logan are talking about their company buying the park Logan mentions having a team of lawyers looking into the park and not being able to find out anything about Arnold:
The picture that Ford has in his office is (I'm guessing) the only picture in existence of him.
Given that Arnold died 30+ years ago, it's highly unlikely that any of the staff were there at the time of the park opening.
I friggin' love the show, it's a shame there's only 1 episode left and we have to wait until 2018 for season 2
From what I remember - he knows OF Arnold, rather Arnold himself. He mentions Arnold for the first time in episode 4: "A man named Arnold was the original settler of these parts. He created a world where you can do anything you want, but you can't die. No matter how real this world seems it's still just a game. But then Arnold broke his own rule. He died right here in the park, except I believe he had one story left to tell. A story with real stakes, real violence. You could say I'm here to honour his legacy."
weringo said:
We know Arnold died at least 35 years ago because that's the time frame provided to the viewer twice. Once by Dolores during diagnostics interview: Ford asks her when was the last time she spoke to Arnold, she replies "34 years, 42 days, and seven hours" and since she is ultimately the direct cause of Arnold's death we can deduce she was the last person or host to ever see Arnold alive. What we don't know is when this diagnostic interview with Ford takes place. Before her current adventure with flashbacks began, after she arrives back from that adventure, at some random point in the past etc. Second time the time frame is defined by MiB himself. In Episode 5 MiB speaks with Ford in a bar, and he mentions "The man I should be asking (about moral to the Westworld stories) died 35 years ago and nearly took this place with him. Almost, but not quite, thanks to me". So if MiB is the "current" timeline then Arnold expired at least 35 years ago.
We also know from the last episode that it all probably happened in old labs below Escalante (the town with the church) where mechanical Talulah Riley's (the lady who later in time greeted William to Westworld in William Timeline and served as Lure in the unfinished scenario MiB and Teddy step into in mountains in MiB Timeline) among other first gen hosts was learning to dance. What we don't know is how critical the failure was. 35 years ago - so one would expect only 55-60 year old plus employees to have met Arnold, whereas with exception of Ford, all the employees appear to be quite young. It could be that they are simply "timeless" - like Bernard was, and any mementos or pictures of Arnold would "not look like anything" to them
. Or maybe "critical failure" initiated by Dolores had more of a "Meave moment" and she wiped out entire staff (the "lab under church flashbacks" she has is full of bodies in white coats). If that's the case - maybe there were no survivors among first gen staffers to even remember Arnold?
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Soldato
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Lol I never clocked that Ed Harris was in a different timeline to William and Logan. I thought they were all guests in the park in the present. When was it revealed that they weren't?
Salvation was rubbish and Interstellar was meh... go figure
interstellar was good until right until he tried to be too clever and thats what ruined a decent film.hopefully he doesnt try to over complicate the simple.
simple is clever.
To some of us in their first episode when they were discussing purchase of Westworld (the money men, as Ford later called them), Ed Harris' Sweetwater was different to Will and Logan's Sweetwater (different scenarios being pitched by hosts, some buildings had different logos, town was different in places, Maeve was nowhere to be seen, "old" Clementine was running brothel etc) but "out there in the open" confirmed on screen - for example when Logan opened Dolores with a knife and she was still mechanical inside. Only the first generation of hosts were mechanical.
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Soldato
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Lol me too.