What are your thoughts on the future of pubs/restaurants etc?

[D.P.]

Unfortunately the vast majority of the country are going to be in fuel poverty shortly so going out to a high end pub is probably going to be quite low on their list of priorities.
Real ale and tapas isn't going to save the pub trade.

indeed, which is why the pubs need to change their clientele to those with money who will still be able to afford to eat ans drink out. The cheapest beer and inedible food wont save the pubs. They need a different market with much higher margins.

 

[RobDogDog]

£5.90 for a pint of Estrella in one of my old drinking holes. No thanks!

 

[Ahleckz]

I went to an old favourite which shut during Covid but reopened with new owners. Used to be a great pub serving 4 real ales and had a great craft beer fridge. Now it’s just the standard fare, pretty lack lustre service and we paid £14 for two pints of Beavertown Neck Oil. We had one pint and moved to a pub literally across the road where it was two pints for £9. I get pubs are struggling, but they need to up their game.
At the end of the night I went to my local and paid £7 for a pint of Siren/Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I didn’t mind as the staff are great, music is always good (and played at a volume suitable to have a conversation over) and they rotate their beers often.
If they are charging premium prices, they need to offer something more than just liquid in a glass.

Pubs need to modernise and get with the times, while still holding on to that traditional pub local. I was in Scotland recently on vacation and was looking forward to visiting some pubs, and although I managed some nice pints it wasn't exactly easy.

A primary problem in scotland was the licensing rules. I was on vacation with family and wanted to go for a drink in the hot sun (it hit 30C in Scotland!), but it is basically impossible to bring children in to a pub unless you eat. If you just want a beer you a screwed. And understanding the exact rules and which pubs have the required licensing to let families in and have a drink without food is absolutely impossible. Now I understand why some of these rules were introduced on the past, but in this day and age these need changing. Instead of not letting children in, they should just call child services for the drunken father who spend 6 hours getting wanted in a pub with their children bored out of their minds. This also sets up a terrible system where children don't get the right impression about drinking. I want my children to watch me go to a pub and enjoy a nice pint while they have a soft drink and we carry on site seeing or go to the park afterwards, not to have the whole world of drinking hidden from view .

these rules alone meant the pubs lost about 90% of our custom. And I cant think of anywhere else in the world with such rules. Normally going to get some drinks is a family social occasion, and the bars even have areas for kids to play.

I like real beer,, tending toward Trappiste style double and tripples, or American west coast Imperial IPAs and stouts + porters. I also tend to pick local microbrewery options when suitable, especially for stouts. I do drink lager, but usually only form Munich. yes I am a beer snob. I drink beer for the taste, the alcohol is a pleasant secondary factor. Finding a pub that serves a selection of such beers is a challenge, you tend to have to go to a dedicated beer cellar (found a great one in Manchester a few years back). This tends to mean I look for pubs connected to microbreweries or good beer shops, for example I visited the Byre Inn near Callandar which sells beer from the Scottish ale shop next door.

Moreover, I drink a lot of non-alcoholic beer as well. I don't want to get drunk, so after 1 good strong beer I will move over to the non-alcoholic beers. There is so much choice of fantastic NA beers these days. The whole concept seemed pretty alien in the UK, and when they had something it was often Heineken 0.0 which is as bad as the alcoholic version.



When it comes to food, my wife and I are mostly vegan, but will go vegetarian or eat fish form time to time. Very few places seem to cater to the fastest growing dietary group. We also have quite high expectations for food quality. We both love to cook and so it is always disappointing paying a chunk of cash for something which I could cook better at a fraction of the cost. Even before I became vegan, many of my friends were, so there was no option to go out for a meal together at a standard pub.


I think all of this goes hand-in-hand. People are generally drinking less, the younger generation often don't drink, at all so having lots of good NA beer and mocktails would help entice them. High quality cooking with a diverse menu and plenty of real vegan options (not pasta and tomato sauce) will draw in a much bigger crowd. Premium beer and food will demand premium prices, and there are plenty of people willing to pay that. There is big scope for having tapas style food with good drinks. This doesn't stop the pub having some regular lagers and traditional pub-grub to serve that market, but they need go appeal to the 2020s demographic.

I get your point about it being hard to find places with kids, but you need to consider the target audience. I certainly don’t want to go to a pub with lots of kids in it and actively avoid the kid friendly pubs in Glasgow.
The law is confused, and probably need’s clarifying but pubs should be adult places first and foremost.

As for vegan offerings, you clearly didn’t come to Glasgow which is considered to be one of the best cities in Europe for vegan food!

 

[Surveyor]

indeed, which is why the pubs need to change their clientele to those with money who will still be able to afford to eat ans drink out. The cheapest beer and inedible food wont save the pubs. They need a different market with much higher margins.

There are nearly 40,000 pubs in England and Wales. How many do you think are needed to cater for the more affluent who want to eat and drink out?

As for vegan offerings, you clearly didn’t come to Glasgow which is considered to be one of the best cities in Europe for vegan food!

Deep fried [insert vegetegable here]?

 

[D.P.]

I went to an old favourite which shut during Covid but reopened with new owners. Used to be a great pub serving 4 real ales and had a great craft beer fridge. Now it’s just the standard fare, pretty lack lustre service and we paid £14 for two pints of Beavertown Neck Oil. We had one pint and moved to a pub literally across the road where it was two pints for £9. I get pubs are struggling, but they need to up their game.
At the end of the night I went to my local and paid £7 for a pint of Siren/Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I didn’t mind as the staff are great, music is always good (and played at a volume suitable to have a conversation over) and they rotate their beers often.
If they are charging premium prices, they need to offer something more than just liquid in a glass.


I get your point about it being hard to find places with kids, but you need to consider the target audience. I certainly don’t want to go to a pub with lots of kids in it and actively avoid the kid friendly pubs in Glasgow.
The law is confused, and probably need’s clarifying but pubs should be adult places first and foremost.

As for vegan offerings, you clearly didn’t come to Glasgow which is considered to be one of the best cities in Europe for vegan food!

If pubs are adult places then they are doomed to fail since most people actually have kids. That is a huge demographic they cut out. And as i said, that is bad for society and doesn't teach children healthy drinking conduct.

sadly i didn't have time to get to Glasgow, my favorite Scottish city. I spent.most of the time with family near Stirling. How many of the pubs had vegan food, or was it mostly restaurants? The latter is definitely quite good in Scotland

 

[beachBOYken]

I think it is the fact that everything is just so expensive and a change of habits. When I was in my 20's the night life was epic in many a town. Now most are dead with the cities clinging on. I could go out on £20-30 quid and have a good time 15 years ago. A pint was a little over 2 quid. Clubs were less than a fiver to get in.

Hospitality is about the worst industry to be in at the moment. They need to evolve fast and have a USP to survive.

A lot of the chains are to blame as well. Really terrible microwaved food. Especially spoons. Maybe it is my rose tinted glasses but when I was in my early twenties it actually used to serve decent grub and large portions but now you need to order two meals to just get a fill! I only ever go to these places when I am in a hotel for the night and it's plonked on the side.

My half sister was in the pub game all her life. Ended up getting her own in a small village. Cooked her food and worked bloody hard for it. Eventually it was too much for her and she sold up and retired.

It might not be the case but I feel there is too many chain pubs/restaurants now such as spoons, beefeater…individual places not so much.

If I eat out (rarely) I like to go to an independent establishment, not these places that you know most of the food has been precooked and frozen.

 

[Ahleckz]

If pubs are adult places then they are doomed to fail since most people actually have kids. That is a huge demographic they cut out. And as i said, that is bad for society and doesn't teach children healthy drinking conduct.

sadly i didn't have time to get to Glasgow, my favorite Scottish city. I spent.most of the time with family near Stirling. How many of the pubs had vegan food, or was it mostly restaurants? The latter is definitely quite good in Scotland

Ah Stirling, you’d struggle to get vegetables with your dinner there let alone vegan options!
Most pubs will have good vegan options in Glasgow and there are a few fully vegan pubs (Stereo, Mono, 13th Note are three I frequent semi regularly in the city centre). Loads of vegan bakeries, vegan cheese shops, we’re very vegan friendly. My missus is vegan and I predominantly eat vegan at home.

Anyway, a bit off topic!

 

[the shadow]

Work crimbo lunches Prices start from 80 quid a head ?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

The Tories have broken it, and when it comes to choosing who to fix it, you'll choose the Tories. Again.

All Parties all over the years have broke it, don't just pick on one set of .........
I'm 64 and never voted because I learned as a young man that anybody who got in buggered it up so what's the point.
They are all liars and always will be and adults keep falling for it because they think they have a say with a vote - pathetic
It's like having a choice between Fred West or Peter Sutcliffe, who is best out of a bad bunch.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

All Parties all over the years have broke it, don't just pick on one set of .........
I'm 64 and never voted because I learned as a young man that anybody who got in buggered it up so what's the point.
They are all liars and always will be and adults keep falling for it because they think they have a say with a vote - pathetic
It's like having a choice between Fred West or Peter Sutcliffe, who is best out of a bad bunch.

There is no logic to your statement because by your own admission it was functioning fine for the best part of 52 years. It's apparently a complete mystery why society has headed down the toilet this past decade.

The brutal truth is that you are completely passive therefore have no cause to complain, just accept it.

 

[Stretch]

Sorry, not sorry.

We've been getting ripped off at pubs/restaurants for years now. £5-£6 per pint? Used to get 28 day aged fillet in Romania (5* restaurant) for £13 - you're looking at treble and more in the uk for something that cost them a fraction of that to buy.

Inlaws, they scrapped their weekly chippy treat, over £10 for fish and chips.

Pubs, restaurants, takeaways etc, it seemed every week there was a price increase for some reason or another, they had no issue taking money out of our pockets, now the shoe is on the other foot, it's all 'woe is me'.

You should see how much it costs to run a pubs/restaurants in the UK.They have very high fixed costs, and for much of the week not many customer. And for food they have to pay 20% on everything they sell to the VAT man, where as most food you buy to consume at home is exempt.

 

[MooMoo444]

Can't afford to go out. Went to one with work in the evening last week and the place was empty. I can't see that kind of thing lasting through this.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

There is no logic to your statement because by your own admission it was functioning fine for the best part of 52 years.

I have never said it's been fine, it's always upset the working man/woman no matter who got in.
I used to listen to my family moaning about the Government and then when I was 16 listened to every adult male in the Michelin factory moaning about the Government, then onto a factory with 4,000 people constantly moaning about those in power.
it's never changed and still people think ticking a box makes a difference.
We need a new system.

Anyway, those are my 64 years of experience and you will never change how I feel about Politicians so it's pointless replying.
I like that Jonathan Ashworth bloke though, always gives a straight answer.

 

[JamesH85]

Took my family out for dinner on Friday evening. I know i couldn't afford to do that anymore this month. On top of everything else going out for meals etc has now became a luxury and over the coming months this will get worse.

Can see a lot of places closing due to no business and costs.

 

[D.P.]

There are nearly 40,000 pubs in England and Wales. How many do you think are needed to cater for the more affluent who want to eat and drink out?

Sadly quite a small fraction of the 40K, but that is life. In the 19th century there were many Farriers and blacksmiths. The younger generation today drink at about half the rate of even 20 years ago, so that puts and upper bound on numbers unless significant effort is put in, in terms of food, non-alcoholic drinks and venue/entertainment. Younger people also have higher expectations of food quality and healthy eating, and 1 in 4 follow a meat-free diets with trends showing that this will be half within a few years

How many vegetarians and vegans are in the UK in 2024?

In 2024, there are around 2.5 million vegans in the UK, 4.7% of the adult population, and 3.1 million vegetarians, 5.8% of the population

www.finder.com

Microbreweries and crafts beers are still gaining ground on mass produced fizzy urine, which are declining in sales year on year.

So trying to sustain the old drinking holes where people would consume 10 pints of terrible beer and eat unhealthy food is a folly, and thankfully so.Also, there is no easy solution to make that business model sustainable. There is general poverty on the UK, and the Tories have spent 12 years trying to make life harder for the least well-off. Things like theTories catastrophic austerity, let alone the B-word have cost the poorest dearly. And the tories have zero intention of helping them out, instead promising tax cuts to the rich which does help those that need financial help in the slightest.

 

[D.P.]

Ah Stirling, you’d struggle to get vegetables with your dinner there let alone vegan options!
Most pubs will have good vegan options in Glasgow and there are a few fully vegan pubs (Stereo, Mono, 13th Note are three I frequent semi regularly in the city centre). Loads of vegan bakeries, vegan cheese shops, we’re very vegan friendly. My missus is vegan and I predominantly eat vegan at home.

Anyway, a bit off topic!

I might pop back in October, will PM you for Glasgow tips. It has been about 15 years since I was last there!

 

[Feek]

I think the sector of the hospitality industry in the U.K. which serves regular people is screwed as working folks will be eating Tesco Value products be candle light whilst wrapped in a sleeping bag this winter. The absolute top end establishments which serve the rich and famous will just pass additional costs to the customer who won’t even blink.

And this is evident by some posters in this thread already.

I don't 'go to the pub' very often, there's not one within walking distance of home so it's just not something that's part of our usual routine. However, a couple of weeks ago my brother was up and so we did just that. It was a Saturday night and I was expecting it to be heaving but it was totally the opposite. There were half a dozen people at the bar and just a couple of tables were occupied.

It's a pub that closed a few years ago, was put up for sale and bought by a bunch of locals who formed a group and sold shares at £200 each to buy into it. It was clean, hospitable, the few people there were friendly enough but it was just dead. They said they'd had a karaoke the night before which was busy so perhaps that's why it was quieter that evening. They had music playing and it was a good playlist, not loud enough to be deafening but enough to be heard.

They had three ales on pump, one of them was a guest beer and the prices weren't crazy. Even with the staff all being volunteers, I don't see how it's sustainable though, I really don't.

 

[Chris Wilson]

The three main nails in the pub trade's coffin have been drinking and driving, (especially rural pubs), the smoking ban and the Chinese virus. The latter led to huge losses of revenue that human nature is now attempting to claw back with short term measures, like hugely inflated prices from all quarters giving a general rise in the cost of living, and catered food and booze in this specific instance.

As for Feek's example of group ownership of pubs by locals, I haven't seen one yet that didn't fold in acrimony as the shareholders (usually at their wives prodding) fell out, or wanted out but the rest couldn't finance paying them off. It's like a coalition government, sod all gets done save bickering.

 

[Mint8]

As things become more expensive increased numbers of people will stop buying them and then the costs will have to come down. Whether that is pub prices, food or holidays.

Its a short term cash grab under the guise of "Ukraine", "Covid" etc that will be stopped in its tracks hopefully by the huge rise in energy prices eating most peoples disposable income.

Went to a restaurant with friends last week (it was packed out) - £8.00 for a starter, £7.00 for a desert - no thanks - not sustainable in the longer term for most people.

 

[ivrytwr3]

You should see how much it costs to run a pubs/restaurants in the UK.They have very high fixed costs, and for much of the week not many customer. And for food they have to pay 20% on everything they sell to the VAT man, where as most food you buy to consume at home is exempt.

I get that, but unless something is done, then more will close.

I used to enjoy going out for meals, takeaway etc, but for many, it is now a huge luxury - a family of 4 is £100+. This isn't sustainable and so we no longer eat out bar very special occasions.