Caporegime
sorry i meant the recent price hikes because of the fake energy market nonsense. Not fracking thqt got banned in 21? last year wasn't it?
Guardian newspaper
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Guardian newspaper
Soldato
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Fracking has been going on for years in the UK for oil but on a small scale. Gas fracking is new but the risks are hugely overblown by the media and activists.
If the UK insisted that it was the only customer at a fixed rate and then sold it on per customer basis to the energy companies it would have a transformative effective on UK productivity. We might see our energy costs drop hugely, then heavy industry might re-open and new energy intensive industries be opened. The consequent knock on of the suppot business to those industries would drive huge stnadard of living improvements within the country.
If we allow it to be sold on the open market it will do very little for the UK. We need to be selfish.
If the UK insisted that it was the only customer at a fixed rate and then sold it on per customer basis to the energy companies it would have a transformative effective on UK productivity. We might see our energy costs drop hugely, then heavy industry might re-open and new energy intensive industries be opened. The consequent knock on of the suppot business to those industries would drive huge stnadard of living improvements within the country.
If we allow it to be sold on the open market it will do very little for the UK. We need to be selfish.
Soldato
We could have had a fracking industry like the US if only we'd started earlier. Like over 250 millions years ago.
Even ignoring everything else our geology means it's not feasible at scale.
Even ignoring everything else our geology means it's not feasible at scale.
Associate
Pros: gas energy
Cons: fossil fuel/CO2, expensive, some risks around earthquakes although in the UK I don't think we have to worry, safety concerns although I assume they know what they're doing - if it blows up the company needs to foot all the clean up bills not the government, its finite.
Cons: fossil fuel/CO2, expensive, some risks around earthquakes although in the UK I don't think we have to worry, safety concerns although I assume they know what they're doing - if it blows up the company needs to foot all the clean up bills not the government, its finite.
Soldato
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But sadly we know it will be the latter. The Tories arent doing this for the benefit of the country.
Soldato
When they did the fracking last time, I live in Greater Manchester and felt the tremors twice in my house. I'm not sure which fracking site it was from. But I remember the story of tremors appeared on the BBC news site.
I've also found out recently that fracking releases methane in to the atmosphere. This as hardly been mentioned in the usual sources.
www.theguardian.com
www.nationalgeographic.com
I've also found out recently that fracking releases methane in to the atmosphere. This as hardly been mentioned in the usual sources.
Fracking causing rise in methane emissions, study finds
Researchers say boom in shale oil and gas major contributor to climate emergency
www.theguardian.com
More methane in atmosphere linked to more fracking
The chemical signature of methane released from fracking is found in the atmosphere, pointing to shale gas operations as the culprit.
www.nationalgeographic.com
Last time it was active there was a number of ~2.5-2.8 quakes which appeared to be connected to the activity. We don't generally get that type of activity. I don't really know what the wider consequences and/or disruption of that might be though.
Soldato
Blackpool might collapse into an abyss, which I’d certainly call a vastly under appreciated benefit.
Associate
Earthquakes are a release of built up friction between rocks, its not magic, having smaller ones more often could be considered a benefit, and I'm sure (without checking) that the fracking industry tells us that.
I remember the 2002 one, sounded like someone trying to break into the shop below me at the time. I went straight back to sleep.
Significant British Earthquakes
The British Geological Survey provides up-to-date information on recent and historical earthquakes, educational resources, and seismic hazard services
earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk
I remember the 2002 one, sounded like someone trying to break into the shop below me at the time. I went straight back to sleep.
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Soldato
Which then also means tax revenues. 19% corporation tax, and additional 10% tax charges on extraction companies, plus 25% levy.
Would competition laws and the various laws around government subsidies even allow for the UK to do that? Look at all the trouble Ireland had with their 'free' water
Soldato
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Honestly don't know. We're not in the EU anymore but I don't know what international barriers there would be. I can see how it might be state aid. Alternatively just close the interconnectors to the EU then there is no outflow route so the gas has to be sold domestically.
It's a fair challenge though.
Soldato
People assume we have the geology to make it worthwhile. A cursory glance across just about anything written by geologists says we don't.
I think the entire argument is moot.
I think the entire argument is moot.
Caporegime
Yeah only estimated 1 quadrillion BTUs of gas in one field alone totally not worth it..... Enough to run the world for a day.. it's very worth it.
This is a subject where knowledge and expertise should rule not nimby nonsense and media scare stories.
Extraction will happen if the price and need and political desire allows it.
One thing for sure is that Europeans need to rethink the way energy is sold and I hope everyone speaks up when you get a chance.
UK is already producing more than it consumes.
This is a subject where knowledge and expertise should rule not nimby nonsense and media scare stories.
Extraction will happen if the price and need and political desire allows it.
One thing for sure is that Europeans need to rethink the way energy is sold and I hope everyone speaks up when you get a chance.
UK is already producing more than it consumes.
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Soldato
...not everyone is suited to work in retail.
What you mean other than the guy 2 posts above yours?
Soldato
The founder of Cuadrilla disagrees and they are estimates.
Typically when deeper analysis was done last time round only around 10% of estimates was found to be viable.
Plus it's not like the deposits in the US, here the geology makes it far harder to extract (even if it is still there and no long gone).
Edit: Here's a geologist's view from a Professor at the University of Edinburgh that highlights a few of the issues (besides environmental ones) Link
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Keep boot licking billionaires on the off chance you become one.
Yeah I mean most of the Earthquakes are essentially like a bus going by outside as someone else said, but by using the word Earthquake it conjures up roads broken in half and buildings collapsing.
Soldato
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I have used the earthquake argument before but tbh there are a whole bunch of reasons why frakking is bad, methane, CO2 or just plain old expense.
we are an island, arguably one of the best suited countries in the world to go net zero with on shore/off shore wind, solar and tidal with a base of nuclear (admittedly I don't like nuclear but it is a necessary "evil" for now. I would like more investigations into thorium however)
imo we should use what traditional gas we have access to already and are already taking whilst we transition away from it (renewables should have been pushed way more than they were (getting rid of that green crap sentiment sums up why we are in this problem imo))
obviously storage is also an issue but that is where the interconnects help. If it's windy here chances are it may not be in France and if it's still here , it may not be elsewhere (and France have a lot of nuclear as well which they are happy to share esp if we are supplying them as well)
imo frakking is the last form of energy we should be gunning for
we are an island, arguably one of the best suited countries in the world to go net zero with on shore/off shore wind, solar and tidal with a base of nuclear (admittedly I don't like nuclear but it is a necessary "evil" for now. I would like more investigations into thorium however)
imo we should use what traditional gas we have access to already and are already taking whilst we transition away from it (renewables should have been pushed way more than they were (getting rid of that green crap sentiment sums up why we are in this problem imo))
obviously storage is also an issue but that is where the interconnects help. If it's windy here chances are it may not be in France and if it's still here , it may not be elsewhere (and France have a lot of nuclear as well which they are happy to share esp if we are supplying them as well)
imo frakking is the last form of energy we should be gunning for
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