What car for £6.5k per year?

[Kingy]

My old man will be looking for a new motor if he takes a new job. His old company car will go back, and his prospective new place offers an £8k p/a car allowance with fuel card in place of a company car scheme.

He likes the flexibility of his current Mondeo Graphite TDCi 115 Manual 5dr Hatchback, but his new job would be starting up a new office of an existing company as a partner and might be persuaded to go for a saloon/estate.

Tax on the allowance would leave him with £4,800 plus the circa £1,700 he loses in tax on his current company car. This would need to cover depreciation, maintainence, tax and insurance.

He dosen't want a brand new car for depreciation reasons, and wants to be able to sell the car at any time without being in negative equity if neccesary.

Annual mileage is unknown. He is currently doing circa 40,000 miles per year, but this is likely to drop dramatically as his new office could be within 5 miles of home. That said, it's probably best if we estimate annual mileage at 20-25k per year.

He's 47 with 3 of 9 points still valid, and no NCB.

He would consider an auto, and emissions and fuel economy aren't an issue.

I've suggested a A4 2.5 TDI Quattro 180/S4 Avant and a E39 530d/M5.

Open to suggestions to spending less (or more) per year, and the reasons behind the choice etc.

So, what would you guys choose/recommend?

 

[[TW]Fox]

E39/E46 530d/330d.

Outstanding cars. Simply fantastic engine - awesome overtaking power, brilliant fuel economy for a car of its size and type, fantastic to drive, brilliant build quality - just a fantastic car all round.

530d feels nicer and better built than 330d, but even so the 330d is hardly shabby. Drive both and see what suits him best.

 

[D4VE]

530d auto for the ultimate in relaxing driving.

 

[Kingy]

E39/E46 530d/330d.

Outstanding cars. Simply fantastic engine - awesome overtaking power, brilliant fuel economy for a car of its size and type, fantastic to drive, brilliant build quality - just a fantastic car all round.

530d feels nicer and better built than 330d, but even so the 330d is hardly shabby. Drive both and see what suits him best.

I had a feeling you'd side towards the beemers... Suprised you didn't jump on the M5 idea though!

I know the 5 was facelifted on the X plate, but other than the different headlights/rear clusters what changes were made? What's the servicing like? Am I right in saying that he were to purchase one still in warranty, or from a BMW dealer, he gets the good warranty that can be extended?

Any thing that goes wrong at particular mileages? Anything wrong with looking at highmilers, or putting high miles on one?

Does the face-lifted E46 offer anything over the non facelifted version?

What are the power outputs of the x30d engines of different MY's?

It's likely that both variants would be the touring models. I just can't help thinking that Audi make better looking estates, with better interiors(?), and offer more grip being 4WD.

 

[ajgoodfellow]

The newer Audi A6 is a nice car and the 2.5 V6 TDI is said to be a good engine. It's definitely worth considering

The Merc E Class is also a nice estate, as is the Volvo V70

 

[Kingy]

The newer Audi A6 is a nice car and the 2.5 V6 TDI is said to be a good engine. It's definitely worth considering

The Merc E Class is also a nice estate, as is the Volvo V70

Which A6 are we talking? The latest shape or the one previous? I'm not particulary up to speed on model codes for Audii.

He's likely to be put of by the recent tales of woe regarding Mercedes buuild-quality etc, plus being from Leicester, Mercs tend to be a bit 'corner-shop enterprenuer'.

He dosen't like Volvo's. He thinks they're boring and 'Grandad'. Can't say I disagree.

Does the E60 in Sport form (ie, not fugly) offer anything over and above the E39?

What about the Legacy/Galant?

 

[ajgoodfellow]

The latest shape - 2004 onwards. The earlier shape was facelifted though in 2000 I think which improved on the shortcomings of the 1997 model

The Legacy is a good, understated car and worth a look

The Galant never sold that well and only got average reviews. I've never been in one though

The new 5 series touring is meant to be better than the old one. The Sport suspension is said to be very hard though and it has run-flat tyres (a negative point IMO as ride quality suffers)

 

[[TW]Fox]

I know the 5 was facelifted on the X plate, but other than the different headlights/rear clusters what changes were made?

You got nicer front/rear lights, new alloys as well and more importantly the 184bhp 3.0d engine was uprated to the 193bhp 3.0d engine offering more torque as well.

What's the servicing like?

Not cheap but not eye wateringly expensive. Main dealers will take the mick and charge you 200 quid for an oil service, but a decent independant specialist you are looking at about 70 quid for an oil service up to about 250+vat for an Inspection II, the top service.

Am I right in saying that he were to purchase one still in warranty, or from a BMW dealer, he gets the good warranty that can be extended?

Partly true. BMW's factory warranty is 3 years - so almost all E39's are now out of warranty - although the last tourings can, exceptionally rarely.. be found on 04 plates as they continued for longer than the saloons when the E60 replaced them. The actual warranty is exceptional - if you buy an Approved Used BMW from a main dealer, it's as good as the new car warranty. No hassle, no fuss.

Unfortunately, whilst you used to be able to extend it for as long as you want and benefit from the same great warranty this is no longer the case. Recent changes in the law about the way warranties etc are offered means the extended BMW warranty is now rubbish. The one you get with a used car is still great, though.

Any thing that goes wrong at particular mileages? Anything wrong with looking at highmilers, or putting high miles on one?

There have been some concerns about failed turbochargers on higher mileage 3.0d's. I've been trying my best to find out if this is just an isolated thing or a huge issue but I've not been able to. I don't think its that common, but it's a concern.

Turbos etc are covered by people like Warrantydirect.co.uk, who can do a suprisingly good warranty package for a 530d for about £400 a year - £450 a year if you want to be able to get any problems fixed at a main dealer. According to people on the BM forums they are very good and have none of the hassles and get out clauses of other warranty firms.

Does the face-lifted E46 offer anything over the non facelifted version?

A nicer front end and different front and rear bumpers again. Also the facelift Sport is considerably better looking than the prefacelift Sport. In 2003 the 330d gained a 204bhp version of the 3.0d engine, prior to this it was the 184bhp version from the earlier 530d.

What are the power outputs of the x30d engines of different MY's?

530d 1998-2000: 184bhp
530d 2000-2004: 194bhp
330d 2000-2003: 184bhp
330d 2003-2006: 204bhp

It's likely that both variants would be the touring models. I just can't help thinking that Audi make better looking estates, with better interiors(?), and offer more grip being 4WD.

The BMW 5 Series was available from 1996 until 2003 in E39 form. Throughout this period, it was widely regarded by virtually everyone in the press as being the finest executive car in the world (S Class etc are luxury cars not execs before anyone starts). It was What Car? Executive Car of the Year in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. Many cars get the odd reward but such consistent performance is exceptional and unheard of. It really is a fantastic car - the competition unfortunately never managed to beat it until right at the very end of its life - the A6 and the E Class were simply cars you picked if you couldnt stand the thought of being a BMW driver.

The only criticism you could ever make of the E39 interior is if you don't personally like the way it looks. The build quality is brilliant.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The new 5 series touring is meant to be better than the old one. The Sport suspension is said to be very hard though and it has run-flat tyres (a negative point IMO as ride quality suffers)

The new 5 Series is, technically, better than the E39. BMW would have to be quite daft to release an inferior replacement for such an award winning car.

I've driven both E39 and E60 530d's - E39 extensively, and I had an E60 for the day.

I so wanted to hate the E60. I think the E39 is one of the most beautiful saloon cars of all time - the shape is stunning and I think they are fantastic. Whereas the E60 is... welll, it's hardly pretty, it has a wacky interior, and of course it replaced my beloved E39

The E60 I had was a 530d Sport Auto. Firstly, it had the Sport bodykit which in the flesh at least stops the E60 looking horrible - it actually looked really nice. Secondly, the wacky interior isn't actually that bad once you sit in it - it's a nice place to be.

It also has I-Drive - BMW's computer system. This has come in for a considerable amount of flak from... almost everyone, but it's not actually THAT bad. What it is though, is largely pointless in many cases. It's as if its there because 'they can' rather than becuase it really adds anything to the car. Take temperature control, for example. It's all done manually through the controls on the dash EXCEPT for something bizarre like the direction of the flow (I cannot remember exactly what it was but there was only one rather odd climate feature in I-Drive) which you had to use I-Drive for. Odd.

Did I prefer it to the E39? In some ways, yes. In others, no. Firstly the interior is more modern - the E39 interior is lovely but the E60 moves it on a stage. Unfortunately, though, you get the impression they spent a little too much of the budget on fancy gash and not enough on maintaining the quality feel of the E39. Don't get me wrong, build quality is still brilliant, but areas of the cabin didn't feel up to that of the E39.

Being a Sport it had the 'dreaded ride quality ruining' 18" Alloy + Runflat tyre combination but to be honest it's not a problem. The ride was fine.

Would I buy an E60 over an E39? If they were the same price, yes - but as this will never be the case it becomes a lot more complex. Firstly I'd only ever have an E60 in Sport form, and these are still way over £20k whereas a decent E39 is considerably less.

Whether its worth the extra is entirely up to you.

Test drove an E320 CDI last year before Dad got the 530d, as well. Although I didn't get to drive this I was able to notice that the engine wasn't as nice as that in the 5 - it was noticeably more diesel-like, and was noisier at idle. The interior quality was also not as good as the 5 - the bits you couldn't see had some quite nasty plastic - but the interior itself to look at was absolutely beautiful - one of the best I've seen.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The latest shape - 2004 onwards. The earlier shape was facelifted though in 2000 I think which improved on the shortcomings of the 1997 model

Which 'shortcomings' were these?

 

[Kingy]

Which 'shortcomings' were these?

Excellent posts Fox, thanks very much.

I think the shortcomings comment was direct at the A6 rather than the 5-series.

 

[ajgoodfellow]

Which 'shortcomings' were these?

They were directed to the A6, not the 5-series

I remember ride quality was one aspect mentioned

 

[Kingy]

One other thing:-

What are the spec differences between the E39/E46 Standard, SE and Sport trim levels?

 

[[TW]Fox]

One other thing:-

What are the spec differences between the E39/E46 Standard, SE and Sport trim levels?

The spec list is huge - I will never be able to recall it all from memory, but here goes...

E39:

3 trim levels - no-name, SE and Sport.

You can only get the 520i, 525i and 525d as no-name trim level. This has manual air conditioning, no multifunction wheel, no cruise and the most horribly out of place looking 15" alloys you will ever find. Basically, do not buy one of these cars.

SE and Sport are the trim levels worth considering.

SE gives you, as standard (Some of this stuff you get with the none SE as well, but meh):

Dual-zone climate control
Multifunction steering wheel
Cruise Control
Front/rear electric windows
CD Player
Remote boot release, total closure windows (Open/close all windows from keyfob)
Loads of nice little lights
LED rear lights
Chrome trim
16" multispoke alloys
Foglights
Colour coded bump strips/door handles/etc

The Sport gives you this, but also...

17" Sport alloys
Full M-Tech body styling kit (Exactly the same as the kit on the M5, but you get an extra crossbar in the front bumper and a black rear splitter instead of colour coded)
Anthracite headlining
M badges everywhere - steering wheel, gearnob, and M kick plates on the sills.
Sports seats - half cloth, half Alcantara.
M-Tech Sport suspension inc lowering
No chrome trim
Rear lip spoiler

The rest of the nice stuff is on the options list although most cars are fitted with leather - there are 3 different types of leather seats - regular, comfort and Sports - if you get leather on a Sport you get the Sport ones, Sport leather ones are also standard on 8 Cylinder models. 'Comfort' seats are rare, but the regular leather seats are nice, to be honest.

The other nice option is the Comms pack - Satellite Navigation, onboard television with teletext and an incar phone system. More common than you'd think - and fixes the 5's only shortcoming in that the Radio both looks and sounds rubbish.

Personally the ideal E39 would be a 530d Sport with leather and comms pack in Topaz Blue. Stunning.

E46 - I'm not so versed on trim levels on these - it's similar but you'll get things like regular climate instead of dual zone. Sport pack still adds the usual bodykit, spoiler, sport seats but you also get 18" alloys with an E46 Sport.

 

[Kingy]

Excellent, again, many thanks.

So basically the Sport makes the SE look good, while including everything on the SE spec sheet, as opposed to a Mondeo type situation where the Ghia X has things that the ST24/100 doesn't? I ask because cruise control is a must.

I've seen a few E39 Sport's with 18's on them, is that just where the buyer has ticked the options list then?

What are the specs on the 525d?

Given that fuel economy isn't a concern, and the fact that this is circa £4k cheaper than the diesel version, would the 530i be worth considering?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Excellent, again, many thanks.

So basically the Sport makes the SE look good, while including everything on the SE spec sheet, as opposed to a Mondeo type situation where the Ghia X has things that the ST24/100 doesn't? I ask because cruise control is a must.

Yes - the Sport pack adds to the SE, the only stuff it takes away are things which are not very... sporty?

I've seen a few E39 Sport's with 18's on them, is that just where the buyer has ticked the options list then?

Yes - 18" Style 37 alloys. Absolutely gorgeous wheels.

What are the specs on the 525d?

160bhp, 0-60 8.5ish seconds.

Given that fuel economy isn't a concern, and the fact that this is circa £4k cheaper than the diesel version, would the 530i be worth considering?

Yes - its the 530i I'm going for myself, they are considerably less money than the diesel. You get 231bhp and 0-60 in 6.5 seconds in the saloon version, not sure about the performance of the Touring.

As for that one though - although its the best colour it does have no options, and there is a ridiculously high premium to pay on low mileage 5's. If that had 80k+ on it, it would be less than £10,000.

 

[ajgoodfellow]

Excellent, again, many thanks.

So basically the Sport makes the SE look good, while including everything on the SE spec sheet, as opposed to a Mondeo type situation where the Ghia X has things that the ST24/100 doesn't? I ask because cruise control is a must.

I've seen a few E39 Sport's with 18's on them, is that just where the buyer has ticked the options list then?

What are the specs on the 525d?

Given that fuel economy isn't a concern, and the fact that this is circa £4k cheaper than the diesel version, would the 530i be worth considering?

The 525d uses an old diesel engine based on older technology. It's just not as good

The only reasons to go for the 530d over the 530 are if you are doing a large number of miles and want to save some money (although the £4k premium will take some doing) and if you prefer the driving style of a diesel

The 530i is a great car with a smooth 3 litre straight six engine

 

[[TW]Fox]

The 525d uses an old diesel engine based on older technology. It's just not as good

No it doesn't - the 525d is a smaller capacity version of the 530d engine. It is a commonrail engine. It was introduced in 2000 and replaced the old-school 525TDS.

 

[clv101]

...emissions and fuel economy aren't an issue.

How come? Is it not better to emit less pollutants into the air we all have to breath? Even if he isn't paying for the fuel himself, his company will be - a lower fuel bill means a more successful company.

I just don't see how emissions and economy can be disregarded?

 

[ajgoodfellow]

No it doesn't - the 525d is a smaller capacity version of the 530d engine. It is a commonrail engine. It was introduced in 2000 and replaced the old-school 525TDS.

I stand corrected - I was thinking of the TDS