What constitutes an undertaking

the wopster · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:47

Hopefully one of our resident police officers or some might know this answer, What constitutes as undertaking? On my way to work I always try and sit in the inside lane (where possible) of 3 lanes I tend not to go above 60-65mph, am I undertaking if I haven't moved lanes an I go past someone who is sitting in the middle/outside lane that is going slower than I am?
I always understood it to be undertaking if I came up behind someone in the outside lane then moved into the inside lane to go past them and then moved back into the outside lane once I passed them.
Are both classed as undertaking or just the latter?

shauncr91 · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:50

I define it as going out of your way to pass a vehicle on the left hand side. If you're travelling on a set path (Steady speed in lane 1 of the motorway for example) and you just happen to be passing people to your right, that's not an undertake.

If you're in lane 3 and dive into lane 2 to pass the car infront and back into lane 3 again, that's an undertake.

the wopster · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:53

shauncr91 said:
I define it as going out of your way to pass a vehicle on the left hand side. If you're travelling on a set path (Steady speed in lane 1 of the motorway for example) and you just happen to be passing people to your right, that's not an undertake.

If you're in lane 3 and dive into lane 2 to pass the car infront and back into lane 3 again, that's an undertake.

That's what I though, but it seems to be a bit of a grey area, for instance on my way home I travel down a 2 lane slip road I always choose the inside lane but numerous times I have went past someone that's in the outside lane doing 25-30mph on a 50mph road, I'm not booting it either I tend to do 5-10 mph under the speed limit most of the time

Kenai · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:56

Pretty sure there is no universally agreed definition and certainly not a legal one but I would suggest what you do is unlikely to draw attention of the law compared to deliberate lane changing.

Dup · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:56

I'd say both are undertaking.

Highway code says only to overtake on the right unless you're I'm congestion and your lane is moving faster.

But the outer lane idiots will hog them all day long so I take my liberties just to make a point. Just don't be daft about it you'll likely be OK. IE, creep passed them.

Nasher · 2 Feb 2017 at 21:59

Someone hogging lane 2 and 3 would constitute congestion IMO. They are creating it

I almost always pass on the left of middle lane hoggers. If they can't be bothered to move over, nor can I.

the wopster · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:03

And this is what I mean by gray area, 3 different people with 3 different opinions! You could get a police officer that sees it your way or you could get one that goes by the letter of the law and does you for dangerous/careless driving because you have passed on the left.

Kaeo · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:05

Afaik undertaking is no longer a thing, it's overtaking on the left? Pretty sure. And aslong as the person in lane 2 or whatever is doing less than the limit and it's safe to pass on the left without exceeding the limit, its quite legal.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:06

Normally congestion the average speed of traffic would be below the limit right? pretty much anything else and if you pass on the left its undertaking.

Kaeo said:
Afaik undertaking is no longer a thing, it's overtaking on the left? Pretty sure. And aslong as the person in lane 2 or whatever is doing less than the limit and it's safe to pass on the left without exceeding the limit, its quite legal.

EDIT: Guess I can see where you are coming from but still - a single car doesn't count its specifically lanes of traffic.

Rule 268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

TallPaul_S · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:11

Dup said:
I'd say both are undertaking.

Highway code says only to overtake on the right unless you're I'm congestion and your lane is moving faster.

But the outer lane idiots will hog them all day long so I take my liberties just to make a point. Just don't be daft about it you'll likely be OK. IE, creep passed them.

Creeping past them is a bad thing to do, you're exposing yourself to danger for a longer period of time. You don't creep past a car when overtaking them on a SC road, do you

you get past them quickly and safely to limit your time exposed to danger, whether that's on the opposite side of the road, or in their blindspot/on their left where your average MLM won't bother to check when they finally decide to pull back in.

I'll happily sit in lane 1 and undertake several cars sitting in lane 2/3 if there's a space and I'm not changing lanes in order to do so.

I'll also undertake a moron sitting at 55mph on a DC in the right hand lane when lane 1 is clear, there's a section of DC on my commute that's terrible for this, it's 2 miles of DC on an otherwise SC A road, with a roandabout in the middle with no right turn. Cars will join in lane 2 and sit in it for the entire length becuase they're turning right at the 2nd roundabout 2 miles away... :mad:

xs2man · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:14

Rroff said:
Normally congestion the average speed of traffic would be below the limit right? pretty much anything else and if you pass on the left its undertaking.

EDIT: Guess I can see where you are coming from but still - a single car doesn't count its specifically lanes of traffic.

That's how I understand it too. But only recently has it changed, I believe.

Edit: my reply was to your original post. Must have hit quote just after your edit.

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:23

xs2man said:
That's how I understand it too. But only recently has it changed, I believe.

Edit: my reply was to your original post. Must have hit quote just after your edit.

I could see where he is coming from on re-reading the post but AFAIK if its clear to overtake on the right you should do so and can be stopped for "overtaking" on the left if its not lanes of traffic.

Kenai · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:27

Rule 163 also mentions it and is similar to that quoted above;

"stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"

It's quite specific about it being 'queues' not 'one car being a ******* in the middle lane'

the wopster · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:30

So no further forward then lol. it's early afternoon, I'm in lane 1 doing 65-70mph and the motorway is quite except a car in lane 3 doing 65mph am I ok to carry on in the lane I'm in or do I move into lane 3 sit behind him until he pulls over then pass him and move back into lane 1?

Rroff · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:32

I'm pretty sure in that situation the person sitting in the outside lane below the speed limit is going to be the one getting pulled as technically in that situation it would be impeding the flow of traffic.

the wopster · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:35

Rroff said:
I'm pretty sure in that situation the person sitting in the outside lane below the speed limit is going to be the one getting pulled as technically in that situation it would be impeding the flow of traffic.

What about if he's in lane 2 and lane 3 is free? See what I mean about it being a very grey area, everyones opinion and judgement has been different. And I'm guessing a lot of police officers will see it differently also.

TheVoice · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:43

woppy101 said:
So no further forward then lol. it's early afternoon, I'm in lane 1 doing 65-70mph and the motorway is quite except a car in lane 3 doing 65mph am I ok to carry on in the lane I'm in or do I move into lane 3 sit behind him until he pulls over then pass him and move back into lane 1?

You stay in lane 1.

woppy101 said:
What about if he's in lane 2 and lane 3 is free? See what I mean about it being a very grey area, everyones opinion and judgement has been different. And I'm guessing a lot of police officers will see it differently also.

You stay in lane 1.

If a vehicle isn't in the same lane as you in the first place then you can't really overtake it, you're just passing it.

grahamjenks · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:44

woppy101 said:
What about if he's in lane 2 and lane 3 is free? See what I mean about it being a very grey area, everyones opinion and judgement has been different. And I'm guessing a lot of police officers will see it differently also.

Thats where I'd be making a very deliberate effort to swing from lane 1 - 3 and back again - in the blind hope the idiots will learn - works 50% of the time! If you undertake them I assume technically you're both in the wrong and its higher risk for you both.

Barks · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:45

On a motorway if morons are clogging the RHS lane and the middle/first are both clear, I'll cross to the first lane and floor it past. This seems safe and reasonable to me. I'll never do this in the middle lane as it's frankly asking for trouble.

timmeh · 2 Feb 2017 at 22:48

Just out of interest, why aren't you allowed to undertake? I've yet to see a problem with it over here