Wow, some fantastic info in here which has totally changed my thinking on the origonal question, so i could purchase a marantz cd63(around £50/100) and get it modded up so as to surpass the ki sig performance for around £250 extra. Can anything similar be done with amplifiers such as pm66se etc?
What hifi
- Thread starter pzblues
- Start date
as mentioned, wouldnt pay more then £40 for a bog standard 63, i got he KI for around £100
as for modding amps, as far as im aware its not the same thing, oh and avoid the marantz amps like the one you mentioned, so dull and lifeless its untrue. a few you should try and listen to are
Roksan Kandy (mk II or pref mk III)
Cyrus (mk III onwards)
Arcam Alpha 8 or 9
Auidolab 8000a or s
Musical Fidelity X range
Nait Naim 3i (5i if you have the cash)
I have a Cyrus III and its a lovely amp, crisp and detailed sound but not harsh at all, the only thing its lacking is absolute slam since upgrading my mission 751 to B&W CDM1, Im still deciding wether to add a power amp to the Cyrus or sell it and get a Naim Nait 5i or Royksan Kandy 3l
decisions decisions
as for modding amps, as far as im aware its not the same thing, oh and avoid the marantz amps like the one you mentioned, so dull and lifeless its untrue. a few you should try and listen to are
Roksan Kandy (mk II or pref mk III)
Cyrus (mk III onwards)
Arcam Alpha 8 or 9
Auidolab 8000a or s
Musical Fidelity X range
Nait Naim 3i (5i if you have the cash)
I have a Cyrus III and its a lovely amp, crisp and detailed sound but not harsh at all, the only thing its lacking is absolute slam since upgrading my mission 751 to B&W CDM1, Im still deciding wether to add a power amp to the Cyrus or sell it and get a Naim Nait 5i or Royksan Kandy 3l
decisions decisions
pzblues said:
yup go for a standard CD-63 for under £40. Even with £100 worth of mods itl far far surpass the KI sig.... and i mean noticably !!!!! With some basic soldering skills and a little understanding of electronics you can learn an awful lot about these players. Help from the guys in the diyaudio thread taught me sooo much !
I really recommend an arcam amp as i have the delta 290 integrated and it sounds great with my modded cd-63. Some modding of amps can be done, with updating them with newer high spec caps, but not worth spending much else.
Seriously look for a delta 290 as they are exactly the same as the alpha 9 (electrically) but comes in an older case, and costs £100-£150 less
Dunno why but it does. PLus if you wanted to bi-amp in the future, a 290p would cost about another £100 ontop for a nice increase in SQ.kidloco... oooooo looking to upgrade to naim possibly. Id love to here their stuff as ive heard that its pretty tight and sounds great. Im still a noobie but am sticking with my setup for a long time, possibly getting a delta 290p for bi-amping, then eventually speaker stands after uni. After that il be looking at saving up for expensive tube amps once im in my graduate placement
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I have the Audiolab 8000S... A really good amp, but probably a bit more than you can afford, so have a look at an 8000A.kidloco said:as mentioned, wouldnt pay more then £40 for a bog standard 63, i got he KI for around £100
as for modding amps, as far as im aware its not the same thing, oh and avoid the marantz amps like the one you mentioned, so dull and lifeless its untrue. a few you should try and listen to are
Roksan Kandy (mk II or pref mk III)
Cyrus (mk III onwards)
Arcam Alpha 8 or 9
Auidolab 8000a or s
Musical Fidelity X range
Nait Naim 3i (5i if you have the cash)
I have a Cyrus III and its a lovely amp, crisp and detailed sound but not harsh at all, the only thing its lacking is absolute slam since upgrading my mission 751 to B&W CDM1, Im still deciding wether to add a power amp to the Cyrus or sell it and get a Naim Nait 5i or Royksan Kandy 3l
decisions decisions
its weird mate, you reallly dont see that many mods available for other players, not that I have seen anyway.
a lot of people swear by using off board DAC's and getting hold of really sturdy older CD players to use as transports, the tank like TEAC units in particular are supposed to make amazing transports
it really is simple though mate, if you intend to mod, then pick up the cheapest 63 you can find.
If you dont intend to mod then its a bit trickier, the KI is a very capable player and IMO is still well worth the £100 - £120 they go for (for the mod shy people) other good second players...
Arcam alpha 8
Cambridge Audio CD6 (picked up one of these for a mate off the bay, paid £55 for it, looks a bit old school but its built like a tank and sounds taut and snappy, great player
Quite a few good cheap NAD cd players out there also
Oh and dontt rule out the Sony ES range, they are really nice sounding players and have amazing build quality.
All of the ablove options will be put in the shade by a modded 63, it just depends what your after
a lot of people swear by using off board DAC's and getting hold of really sturdy older CD players to use as transports, the tank like TEAC units in particular are supposed to make amazing transports
it really is simple though mate, if you intend to mod, then pick up the cheapest 63 you can find.
If you dont intend to mod then its a bit trickier, the KI is a very capable player and IMO is still well worth the £100 - £120 they go for (for the mod shy people) other good second players...
Arcam alpha 8
Cambridge Audio CD6 (picked up one of these for a mate off the bay, paid £55 for it, looks a bit old school but its built like a tank and sounds taut and snappy, great player
Quite a few good cheap NAD cd players out there also
Oh and dontt rule out the Sony ES range, they are really nice sounding players and have amazing build quality.
All of the ablove options will be put in the shade by a modded 63, it just depends what your after
£40! I got my CD-63 for under £20 off eBay a couple of years ago after my £200 Cambridge Audio player died at 15 months old for a second system. It's a decent player as standard. Has there been a sudden upsurge in interest for old Marantz players?
pzblues said:
you could but there isn't nearly as much info on them. An article was published years ago by thorsten over at tnt-audio, plus the 500+ page thread at diyaudio has pretty much made the 63/67/53 simpling stunning players considering the tiny intiial outlay. Even as standard they sound good, and the only real problem after 10 years of use is the grease on the laser mech going hard. Plus a lot of audiocom parts have been to easily be put in the marantz 63 etc, and with brent at sercal offering a service now too these players have really started to become very popular, and a lot of scared diyers are trying their hand at a bit of modifying for great gains !
magicboy, yup they are very popular now, and i don't really rate CA stuff either. Jsut the fact that every hi-fi mag praises them as being stupidly good for soo little money meeans SWEET F.A !!!!. Those mags are paid enough by manufacturers to write reviews. E.g. these guys can apparently tell stupidly minor differences like colour representation sharpness etc from different HDMI cables
All those things do is transport a load of 0's and 1's from a source to the tv. They can't improve picture quality with special cryo treatments.But as kidloco said, get the cheapest cd-63 you can, but make sure it's working well and has no problems with the laser mechanism> the KI sig is an awesome machine, but i have never seen the point in it as your ripping out the slightly better capacitors anyway. That means the only difference is a copper chassis and a torroidal TX. My chassis has a single layer of bitumen damping all over (not too much to screw up the acoustics), plus i have araldited a 3mm thick stainless steel sheet (~1kg) to the bottom of the player which really made it very sturdy.
christ im waffling, i need to sort out a dedicated thread and pick my brains to see how much i know. Il get it up around the end of the month.
EDIT: WOOOT 1000 posts
Ok i am now totally convinced that the cd63 is the way to go, i have just purchased a decent looking one from ebay at a very reasonable price. Now i have no intention of even trying to mod it myself, i have around £150/200 spare at the moment, my budget is £350/400 for cdp+amp. can i get mods done in stages, if so what should i start with and where am i best getting it done, a big thanks to all you guys for the help and advice..
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difficult one as there is no point spending all that on the CD player if you dont have an amp to listen to it on.
I would firstly pick up a decent amp, £150 to £200 will get you a very capable amp that would have cost around the £500 when released. deends what sound your into. if you like it rich and a little warmer go towards Arcam, if your pref is detailed and taut head over to the cyrus and audiolab camps, the roksan and naim offer a little of both, huge slam and detail and the sound is so lively, yet keeps a nice rich sound, you will pay more though.
As for what mods to do 1st and who to do them, these guys adfinni linked to seem pretty good, but only see, to offer the £255 mods with the superclock mod on top of that available.
http://www.sercal-electronics.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8
It may be worth you emailing them and asking if they could just do a few of the mods, maybe just the superclock 2 mod first, when you have the funds do the rest.
Alternativly, ask around, see if any local hi-fi shop would be will to fit a superclock2 (which you can pick up off the bay for £60)
1 final thing, dont forgot the cables, for interconnects I cant reccomend MArk Grant Cables enough, fantastic quality and price, you can get them made exactly to size as well. Speaker cables, depends on what £ you have left and how much cable you use. I swear by Chord Rumour 2, but it is around £10 a metre. Vandamme blue is supposed to be very highly regarded and is only around £2.50 a metre
I would firstly pick up a decent amp, £150 to £200 will get you a very capable amp that would have cost around the £500 when released. deends what sound your into. if you like it rich and a little warmer go towards Arcam, if your pref is detailed and taut head over to the cyrus and audiolab camps, the roksan and naim offer a little of both, huge slam and detail and the sound is so lively, yet keeps a nice rich sound, you will pay more though.
As for what mods to do 1st and who to do them, these guys adfinni linked to seem pretty good, but only see, to offer the £255 mods with the superclock mod on top of that available.
http://www.sercal-electronics.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8
It may be worth you emailing them and asking if they could just do a few of the mods, maybe just the superclock 2 mod first, when you have the funds do the rest.
Alternativly, ask around, see if any local hi-fi shop would be will to fit a superclock2 (which you can pick up off the bay for £60)
1 final thing, dont forgot the cables, for interconnects I cant reccomend MArk Grant Cables enough, fantastic quality and price, you can get them made exactly to size as well. Speaker cables, depends on what £ you have left and how much cable you use. I swear by Chord Rumour 2, but it is around £10 a metre. Vandamme blue is supposed to be very highly regarded and is only around £2.50 a metre
kidloco said:
Cable is a tough one as it depends so much on what the OP buys.... For instance silver cables like Chord Carnival make my system too bright (and even Rumour makes my system sound too bright), so I have to go for something that just calms things down a bit... If you have a warm sounding amp coupled with B&W speakers for instance though, you will probably need a silver- based cable. The best way to do it is to get friendly with a local Hi-Fi dealer and try a few different ones out.
kidloco said:
hi and thanks for the reply, i have seen an arcam alpha 9 integrated amp at a reasonable price, just i'm a bit concerened when you say "rich, warm sounding" is that to say it lacks detail and slam? If i were to use silver cable and suitable connection leads would this give the amp a less warm and rich sound and make for a more detailed sound. I have got some mordaunt short ms20i pearl speakers, i've own some before and liked them. So to sum up, what do you think the marantz cd/arcam amp/ ms speaker set up will sound like, and please be brutally honest. thanks.
Oh, and would you say that the mordaunt shorts have now been surpassed by such models as wharfadale diamond 9.1, moniter audio bronze etc?
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The Arcam Alpha 9- I really didn't think much of it, sounded quite lifeless - didn't enjoy music from it at all. The sound reproduction was kinda of "background" type, where it lacks that finer detail that makes a amp great. Soundstaging and detail was quite poor. My Audiolab 8000S was in a totally different league. The Arcam pot (volume control) is inaccurate on lower levels, and the poweramp inputs have a design flaw with them.
Mate sold his 9P after borrowing my S/SX. Still got a Alpha 9 boxed up that he doesn't use anymore.
Arcam poweramps are good though, just the pre-amp sections aren't that great.
Mate sold his 9P after borrowing my S/SX. Still got a Alpha 9 boxed up that he doesn't use anymore.
Arcam poweramps are good though, just the pre-amp sections aren't that great.
kidloco said:
ye good idea. Brents a good guy and might be able to tailor up some list of mods including the superclock 2 in it, instead of the s-power regulators. He could use cheapy 7805 or 7812 voltage regulators instead that cost a few quid, and build a pcb to mount them on, as those s-powers do cost a lot. The the clock is a much more important upgrade then really expensive regulators.
Also mention 'adfinni the cd-63 murderer' and he'll know exactly who you spoke to
you know your stuff mate. I totally agree with the mark grant stereo interconnect (IC). It's an excellent cable and i love mine, and as it's not branded the price is great compared to chord, ixos etc: £25 for 0.5m or 1m, and ~£30 for 2m. Speaker cable wise i use ixos xhs706 2.5mm2 stuff which is just a nice thinkly braided cable using a nice bundle of high quality copper strands @ £2.50/m and sounds great. vanne damme blue is very highly regarded too, but i haven't been able to find recentlywith regard to amps, my knowledge is limited as ive been brought up with the arcam sound and love it, but definately check out the audiolab stuff too.
Ok guys, sorry to go on a bit in this thread but i have managed to lay my hands on a marantz cd63 already modded, this is what has been done:
Upgraded by audio excellence, upgrades include diodes replaced with higher grade,superior quality,higher value ones, audio grade capacitors to replace poor quality standard ones,circuit improved around the hdams,new clock board fitted to give improved sound,wider soundstage. Now i have this player and a pair of mordaunt short ms20i pearl speakers, Please recommend an amplifier, i listen mainly to rock music and some blues. Thanks guys..
Upgraded by audio excellence, upgrades include diodes replaced with higher grade,superior quality,higher value ones, audio grade capacitors to replace poor quality standard ones,circuit improved around the hdams,new clock board fitted to give improved sound,wider soundstage. Now i have this player and a pair of mordaunt short ms20i pearl speakers, Please recommend an amplifier, i listen mainly to rock music and some blues. Thanks guys..
oops sorry wrong thread