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What is freesync?
- Thread starter Wilko_Dog
- Start date
I'm not taking sides...but before you all jump on Andy's back, nvidia vs amd technology pricing was mentioned well before Andy had posted in this thread and not the first person to deviate the pricing conversation away from sync tech.
So wind it in, calm it down and of you don't like what someone posts then ignore it rather then trying to spark yet another pointless endless argument.
So wind it in, calm it down and of you don't like what someone posts then ignore it rather then trying to spark yet another pointless endless argument.
Well said Paul. poor show to pull Andy up when he wasn't the instigator.
Caporegime
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Unless I'm missing it Andy was the first to post in regards to AMD 3d at all, bringing it up asking if freesync was free like AMD 3d was, then insisting the link to an expensive monitor on their site meant it was more expensive to get an AMD screen compatible with AMD 3d.
To me the intention seems clear, going out of his way to find an expensive model listed on the AMD website rather than looking at the cheapest model available on OCUK(or any other store) then trying to imply this means AMD charge for 3d and by implication, that freesync won't be free. So should people pull him up on that, yes, because he most certainly did start an absurd side trip into trying to prove freesync won't be free.
I also literally don't understand his daft "cherry picking" example. I have a samsung screen, it came with tridef, I cherry picked nothing. In fact by randomly picking another Samsung screen today that was more expensive he was the only one cherry picking anything. I didn't even mention how much I got it for. I paid significantly more for mine because I got them when they were brand new out. However, the software was still free, and Samsung isn't the only brand tridef software came free with. I have no idea which models now have it included for free but I wouldn't be surprised if it was quite a few 3d monitors.
When I bought my monitor it didn't mention free tridef software anywhere, it was just there when I got the screen.
EDIT:- I can't work it out, afaik most of the 3dvision screens say 3dvision "ready" as in, don't come with the glasses, the glasses appear to add 80-100 to the cost of a screen. My Samsung at about £230 around release came with the glasses included. At the time the best Nvidia alternative was something along the lines of £300-350 for a worse(IMHO) screen and then cost a further £100 more for the glasses which seem simply included at almost cost, in non 3dvision screens.
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Soldato
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I didnt go out of my way to find an expensive model off the Amd website, I found the ONLY Amd 3D model currently available anywhere, people have responded to say that at some point in the past certain models were available cheaper, or came with a free copy of a piece of software, however as of today that isnt the case, so yes, people are cherry picking historical pricing to prove a point that as of today doesnt exist, yet they still keep saying that freeseync will be free because herp derp AMD 3D is free, when it is currently more expensive than the equivalent Nvidia 3D
If you go to the tridef AMD free page, it actually tells you that that promotion no longer exists, but you can still download the 14 day trial for free
If you go to the tridef AMD free page, it actually tells you that that promotion no longer exists, but you can still download the 14 day trial for free
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Soldato
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AMD have already been quoted on occasion saying 3D is dead. That's how much they care about it. Tell that to the kick-started OCulus. They're doing pretty well for themselves last time I checked.
Not sure why this has side-tracked into 3D territory anyway. Tridef isn't something you hear a lot of AMD fans rave about. The only real comparison it has with Free-Sync is that, much like Tridef - they're piggy backing off available standards.
Not sure why this has side-tracked into 3D territory anyway. Tridef isn't something you hear a lot of AMD fans rave about. The only real comparison it has with Free-Sync is that, much like Tridef - they're piggy backing off available standards.
+1
@pgi,
Yes in game 3D with the likes of C2/3, SD, TR, Sniper Elite, Deus Ex, has AMD locked out Nvidia from using in game 3D like Nvidia lock out AMD 3D in the likes of Batman?
Agree with you on the andy bit, but if he starts on DCL in this thread then he's on his own.
Keep it civil guys please.
Why are you using AMD 3D as an example when there is no push from AMD regarding 3D hence the only 120Hz panel you can find is an expensive eol unit?
Apples and oranges, the same as cherry picking pricing, AMD price gouged 7970's isn't the same as retail pricing Nvidia employ, how much was retail 780 one week before 290 launch?
How much is Titan Z?
How much is the premium on top of a vanilla monitor when you add the option of Gsync?
I would ask how much the freesync monitor would cost, but as nothing extra is getting added hardware wise, then it's going to be hard for AMD to charge a premium on a piece of hardware they don't make.
Yes in game 3D with the likes of C2/3, SD, TR, Sniper Elite, Deus Ex, has AMD locked out Nvidia from using in game 3D like Nvidia lock out AMD 3D in the likes of Batman?
Agree with you on the andy bit, but if he starts on DCL in this thread then he's on his own.
Keep it civil guys please.
Why are you using AMD 3D as an example when there is no push from AMD regarding 3D hence the only 120Hz panel you can find is an expensive eol unit?
Apples and oranges, the same as cherry picking pricing, AMD price gouged 7970's isn't the same as retail pricing Nvidia employ, how much was retail 780 one week before 290 launch?
How much is Titan Z?
How much is the premium on top of a vanilla monitor when you add the option of Gsync?
I would ask how much the freesync monitor would cost, but as nothing extra is getting added hardware wise, then it's going to be hard for AMD to charge a premium on a piece of hardware they don't make.
Soldato
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Why are you using AMD 3D as an example when there is no push from AMD regarding 3D hence the only 120Hz panel you can find is an expensive eol unit?
Apples and oranges, the same as cherry picking pricing, AMD price gouged 7970's isn't the same as retail pricing Nvidia employ, how much was retail 780 one week before 290 launch?
I would ask how much the freesync monitor would cost, but as nothing extra is getting added hardware wise, then it's going to be hard for AMD to charge a premium on a piece of hardware they don't make.
Because people keep using AMD 3D as an example of how AMD make things "open" and "free" and then cherry picking the best example from history... I didnt start the cherry picking, i was simply using an example as a reductio ad absurdum, as well you know tommy - my point exactly was that cherry picking historical pricing IS ridiculous, I'm glad you picked up on that
And that is exactly the point people are making, we dont actually know what, if any, freesync monitors are coming, and what their price is going to be relative to nonfreesync or gsync monitors.
Using the example of the singular current AMD 3D monitor pricing is invalid as a point, but using the pricing of the singular aftermarket modded Gsync monitor is totally valid? Just pointing out the hypocrisy.
And AMD have totally given up on 3D, where as Nvidia continue to support, even adding 3D support to gsync. So do we take it from this that freesync will also be a novelty that a lucky few will get to pickup when retailers dump stock but then AMD basically give up on?
Nothing extra is added to an AMD 3D monitor, yet as of today the only AMD 3D is more expensive than the equivalent Nvidia 3D monitor, no AMD are not charging the extra, but someone is
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The simple point is that GSync adds substantial cost to the monitor[that was the point] where as AMD 3D does not and its presumed neither will freesync but until then a cost comparison can not be made regardless if expensive 3D monitors can be found which AMD has nothing to do with, wait until there are models with freesync and the same model without.
^
This.
Again, AMD haven't given up on something they never pushed in the first place in regards to 3D.
They provided 3D capabilities at the driver level from 6 series and they are still providing it now, nothing more nothing less.
3D monitors andy, can you link one with AMD's branding on it a la 3D vision?
Gsync carries a price premium and another lock in.
Nvidia will be able to provide freesync support if they want to with it being an open standard and all but probably wont as it will turn away gsync sales.
This.
Again, AMD haven't given up on something they never pushed in the first place in regards to 3D.
They provided 3D capabilities at the driver level from 6 series and they are still providing it now, nothing more nothing less.
3D monitors andy, can you link one with AMD's branding on it a la 3D vision?
Gsync carries a price premium and another lock in.
Nvidia will be able to provide freesync support if they want to with it being an open standard and all but probably wont as it will turn away gsync sales.
Caporegime
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Freesync pretty much has nothing to do with AMD if we're to believe it's just a standard in DP 1.3
I think it was amd that pushed for it to be included in dp1.3 spec, not sure though.
What else we don't know is how well it stacks up against gsync, as nvidia have changed the entire scaler that also includes some 700mb of ram, only time will tell but as it stands gsync doesn't really have any competition. You could shout until your blue in the face about the ifs and buts of freesync, the fact remains that all has been seen was a 30fps demo of a windmill on a netbook, no hands on usage in games or side by side comparisons etc...
What else we don't know is how well it stacks up against gsync, as nvidia have changed the entire scaler that also includes some 700mb of ram, only time will tell but as it stands gsync doesn't really have any competition. You could shout until your blue in the face about the ifs and buts of freesync, the fact remains that all has been seen was a 30fps demo of a windmill on a netbook, no hands on usage in games or side by side comparisons etc...
Soldato
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So having an entire section of their website devoted to "AMD 3D" and using their marketing budget to bundle copies of tridef equals never pushed
The fact is, they did push and advertise it as an alternative to 3Dvision, but as of today AMD 3D is all but nonexistent, where as Nvidia 3d is still supported by nvidia
That is one of many reasons why i would potentially buy a gsync monitor, but not a freesync one, you never know when AMD might get bored of the idea
So having an entire section of their website devoted to "AMD 3D" and using their marketing budget to bundle copies of tridef equals never pushed
The fact is, they did push and advertise it as an alternative to 3Dvision, but as of today AMD 3D is all but nonexistent, where as Nvidia 3d is still supported by nvidia
That is one of many reasons why i would potentially buy a gsync monitor, but not a freesync one, you never know when AMD might get bored of the idea
Totally irrelevant to the OP and the point about cost and on top of that 3D still works on AMD because it does not depend on the level of AMDs interest because its all 3rd party.
If freesync becomes part of the DP 1.3 standard then again AMDs level of interest becomes irrelevant.
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Soldato
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the third post in this thread (from humbug) mentioned cost... the very name of "freesync" implies it will be "free", how "free" remains to be seen
I brought up 3D because every time someone mentions 3DVision vs. AMD 3D they also start throwing about this term "free"
you are implying that IF variable vblank becomes a standard part of DP1.3 that a) all manufacturers will adopt it (and charge no extra) and b) all GPU makers will adopt it - if AMD are the only party who adopt it, well, we've already seen what happens to manufacturer support for AMD's "free" "standards"
gsync's cost is under the spotlight because it is new and there is only one model available, we still don't know what gsyncs typical retail cost is going to be like without a range of monitors to compare, the same goes for "free"sync, which has been an uphill struggle to get people to admit that it *might* not, technically, be free so much as "free"
I am only responding to what people are saying to me, then someone else comes along and says "that has nothing to do with this thread"... right, well, say that to the person who instigated it
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I think its more of a case of you wanting Free-Sync to have added costs because G-Sync has.
The first point, is free as in AMD does not charge for it, they make no money from the monitor.
Second point if it becomes the standard then it does not matter if only AMD support it or not.
Third point, its not about the price range of monitors with Gsync/FreeSync, its about the added premium on top to what it would have cost without.
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Soldato
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I honestly don't care, I'm just being pragmatic.
the first point, as a consumer, do I care if AMD make nothing from a screen that costs £100 more than the nvidia equivalent? or do I only care about the actual price I pay?
second point, yes it entirely matters... calling something a "standard" only works if it is supported by multiple manufacturers
third point, same as the first point, as a consumer I only care about the actual end price, so if the Asus monitor is £300 without and £400 with, but the samsung freesync one is £450 (the same price as the only 3D monitor they currently sell - so "free"sync) with and no option without, then that is the comparison you end up with - at this point we simply don't know
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For the umpteenth time, Amd have never done anything apart from the driver level to enable 3D, keep ignoring that though if you think it contrives your freesync cost argument.
Amd don't plug 3D as it's on the decline in regards to PC gaming in general-Nvidia haven't advanced their 3D either, if it was gaining momentum, there would have been a 3D vision kit 3 by now with version 4 on the horizon.
The rest you are discussing cost with freesync-fair enough, valid points that we will find out in due course.