What should a 5 year old be taught?

[The Halk]

So you feel you were abused as a child then?



Most kids seem to deal with it pretty well...




Is it only religion that gets this treatment or do all social constructs get it too? Should we not teach them our moral and political values and let them come up with their own?

Yes, I do. Again though, going back to earlier in the thread and the stigma around the term "child abuse" then I'd say my trust was abused.

I've dealt with it quite well. What religion, or lack of, that someone believes in is their own personal business, not mine or anyone elses. I firmly believe that people's right to be religious is to be defended.

The last part is quite interesting. I think you've maybe pointed out that it's not as black and white as I'm thinking.

So while I'm saying that making kids sing hymns is wrong, you're saying that it may also be wrong to tell them that the poor should be fed, or it may be wrong to tell them the poor should not be fed.

Something that makes it easier to distinguish between them is that it's clear that political and moral views are an opinion, and they are not fact. Religion presented as scientific fact is wrong. Political and moral beliefs are about what we should do, which implies a choice. Again telling a kid they should believe in God is different to saying that 2,000 years ago a man rose from the dead 3 days later and performed miracles. The latter is presenting something which may or may not have happened as fact.

 

[RDM]

The last part is quite interesting. I think you've maybe pointed out that it's not as black and white as I'm thinking.

So while I'm saying that making kids sing hymns is wrong, you're saying that it may also be wrong to tell them that the poor should be fed, or it may be wrong to tell them the poor should not be fed.

Something that makes it easier to distinguish between them is that it's clear that political and moral views are an opinion, and they are not fact. Religion presented as scientific fact is wrong. Political and moral beliefs are about what we should do, which implies a choice. Again telling a kid they should believe in God is different to saying that 2,000 years ago a man rose from the dead 3 days later and performed miracles. The latter is presenting something which may or may not have happened as fact.

I am going to be bringing up my daughter knowing that stealing is wrong. I am certainly not going to go "In my opinion, stealing is wrong." I see little difference between political, moral and religious beliefs, all of them can be firmly held or somewhat transient, all of them can be presented as the truth or as opinion. As far as I am concerned they are all social constructs so why treat them differently?

At the end of the day though faith schools tend to produce better results, possibly due to an ability to self select or possibly for other reasons, who knows.

 

[Tombo]

In all honesty they should be a kid and not know how **** life can be and its hazards until they're atleast 12. Speaking from experience atleast... I wish I didn't learn how hard it was at a young age.

They definitely need to learn about sex and drugs before 12.

 

[The Halk]

I am going to be bringing up my daughter knowing that stealing is wrong. I am certainly not going to go "In my opinion, stealing is wrong." I see little difference between political, moral and religious beliefs, all of them can be firmly held or somewhat transient, all of them can be presented as the truth or as opinion. As far as I am concerned they are all social constructs so why treat them differently?

At the end of the day though faith schools tend to produce better results, possibly due to an ability to self select or possibly for other reasons, who knows.

Well. I think the simple reason is they get to exclude people, that's why they get better results.

I am finding it very difficult to argue with you - stealing is a good example for you to have picked. I'm off to make a cup of tea to see if I can work my head around things in order to explain it

 

[Missing.String]

Heh. One minute we're saying hitting children is fine, the next we're worrying about their mental state over what is arguably a fairly trivial issue.

I love OcUK.

 

[The Halk]

Heh. One minute we're saying hitting children is fine, the next we're worrying about their mental state over what is arguably a fairly trivial issue.

I love OcUK.

Hitting children is fine... well, for discipline under certain circumstances. I don't mean treating them like punch bags of course.

As for telling kids don't steal compared to telling kids Jesus was real...

I'm still finding it a difficult thing to put into words, but here's an attempt.

We can tell kids stealing is wrong, and we can also explain to them why it's wrong, they can understand the consequences which are not in doubt.

As far as telling them about Jesus is concerned the effects of it are intangible.

The problem I have with that is that if someone does believe in Jesus, heaven, eternal damnation etc then to them the consequences of stealing are just as real as the consequences of not believing in Jesus.

Although... if there actually turns out to be a Jesus then I still think I'll be alright. We can't force ourselves to believe in something. If God does exist then he gave us brains and reasoning, why would he then expect us to believe something with no proof? I don't live my life particularly differently to someone who is Christian, in fact in some cases I probably live my life a lot better. I never steal. If a shop overchanges me I'll go back and give them their money back. If I found 10K in my bank account I wasn't supposed to have I'd be on the phone giving it back.

Anyway, this is all going miles off and I don't think we'll be able to reach any kind of agreement. It's very interesting though!

 

[LeJosh]

They definitely need to learn about sex and drugs before 12.

Why?

 

[Chimerical]

Heh. One minute we're saying hitting children is fine, the next we're worrying about their mental state over what is arguably a fairly trivial issue.

I love OcUK.

I think if people want to smack kids all the time, then they really shouldn't be having them.

Go do something else like murdering pigeons or shooting old people.

 

[Russinating]

I don't have a child, but I think you're overreacting. I think learning about these kinds of things early on is a good thing - at least that's how I was brought up. The only reason death and drugs are sensitive subjects is because they're not talked about. Death is a perfectly natural thing that happens to everyone, and you should tell your kid that. Equally, how is learning that drugs are bad before they start taking them a bad thing?

I vividly remember my dad not minding me watch gory films (to a certain degree obviously) as long as they were realistic. He hated anything like an Arnie film where he'd be shot at by 200 people and not take a hit. A film where one shot killed on the other hand was fine, because it realistically portrayed the danger of weapons.

 

[rotters]

I have 2 very young children and the concept of death has been spoken about very openly. also the fact that drus are "bad".

also those saying another language by 5 is madness, my 3 year old loves learning spannish. nothing wrong with starting early its when children are at their most receptive to ideas.




rotters

 

[The Halk]

I have 2 very young children and the concept of death has been spoken about very openly. also the fact that drus are "bad".

also those saying another language by 5 is madness, my 3 year old loves learning spannish. nothing wrong with starting early its when children are at their most receptive to ideas.

That would be a discussion with their parent at an appropriate time. What seems to have happened here is the subject has been glossed over in school and the poor confused child has come home with lots of questions.

Would you have been annoyed if before you had the discussion with your child a teacher had told them about it and upset them?

 

[benneh]

By the time I was 10 I knew exactly what a joint was, and at 5 that aint far away. Be thankful that she's being taught the dangers of drugs at school, I certainly wasn't (not to sound like a knob, but it's certainly better that she learns as early as possible, so long as it's an even well rounded opinion that she's being given, in a manor suited to her age).

 

[LoadsaMoney]

I thought they were all being taught how to use a blade and what not

 

[rotters]

That would be a discussion with their parent at an appropriate time. What seems to have happened here is the subject has been glossed over in school and the poor confused child has come home with lots of questions.

Would you have been annoyed if before you had the discussion with your child a teacher had told them about it and upset them?

tbh not particularly, as a parent you are there to answer the awquard questions, would you be annoyed if you heard that you child had been in discussions with friends who had been to a funeral due to a dead grand parent?? of course not, youll just smooth over the unknown facts when they ask you.


also i quite amazed that drugs and death havent openly been discussed by 5. some children books cover death by having a dead pet/grandparent at somepoint in them (obviously not all but some).






rotters

 

[Tombo]

Why?

You've seriously never heard of 12 year olds having sex?

 

[LeJosh]

You've seriously never heard of 12 year olds having sex?

Where did I say that?

I just asked why.

 

[Cybermyk]

While I don't think Whacko should be glorified in any way, I don't see a problem with kids of any age learning about life. Schools seem very exam and scoreboard focused at the moment so some lessons in morality should be welcomed.

My eldest has a couple of A levels and is starting a foundation degree but she can't tell her right from her left let alone right from wrong.

 

[Tombo]

Where did I say that?

I just asked why.

So you'd rather they didn't learn about it, even if they're going to be doing it?

 

[LeJosh]

So you'd rather they didn't learn about it, even if they're going to be doing it?

I only wanted to hear your opinion. It's not about what I want when I asked why.

 

[HeadlessChicken]

Kids are a hell of a lot smarter than many folks give them credit for. They will take that sort of information, analyse it, digest it, understand it, store it for later use and get on with their happy young lives.

Ignorance is not bliss. The more they know, the smarter they will become. Chill, all is ok