What were the advantages in being in the EU?

Six6siX said:
Biggest reasons for me are economic and being part of the trading bloc/single market simply makes more sense. The biggest knock on effect that I am closest to is that technology suppliers for some of the transport industries in this country are based in other EU countries. If we do indeed lose access to this trading bloc to stop free movement (as many want to do) then the technology coming into this country to enable infrastructure upgrades will simply get more expensive. The cost will just be passed onto the general public in public transport costs. Will there be as much money to even invest in transport infrastructure - there were already a lot of cuts made.
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I'm pretty confident we'll still trade, albeit with tariffs at both end possibly, with EU countries. This "technology", would it be a logistical nightmare if we got it from another provider(possibly at a cheaper price, might take a few years)?

Another big one for me is the Snoopers Charter and other such legislation that has the potential of being blocked by the EU - I've always maintained that our government needs the external influence to regulate it.
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Considering the times we live,I don't think this is a "bad" thing(Snoopers Charter). But that is another thread.

At EU level they always appear to be in favour of things that might have put us at a disadvantage or diminish our rights as normal people in favour of big business (e.g. working time directive). At a national level they push the limits of what regulations have been put in place by the EU that again don't seem to be in the interests of the people (e.g. unfair dismissal in employment changes)
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This is uncharted territory, I would think that the government will not go back in time, and forcefully make life worse for our people. I'm convinced employment laws that are detrimental to employees will not pass parliament.

But again, uncharted territory, we'll see how the Tories handle it.
 
davewhite04 said:
I don't think we need the EU for peace on Earth. In fact they were talking about forming an EU Army, does that sound peaceful to you?
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Until we have a massive shift in human nature peace and stability often comes through having a robust and substantial defensive capability.

People have a lot of fear of nuclear weapons but they are a large part of why we've had relative peace and stability for the last 30 years or so.
 
Gigabit said:
Hold on didn't the leave side say a definite no the EEA during the campaign?
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EEA won't work... immigration was a big issue if we do negotiate to maintain some sort of partial free access to the single market then it will likely have to come with concessions on free movement
 
davewhite04 said:
Considering the times we live,I don't think this is a "bad" thing(Snoopers Charter). But that is another thread.



This is uncharted territory, I would think that the government will not go back in time, and forcefully make life worse for our people. I'm convinced employment laws that are detrimental to employees will not pass parliament.

But again, uncharted territory, we'll see how the Tories handle it.
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We need the people who have been so vocal about leave to step up and make sure things like that don't go through as well... but will they. Otherwise we will likely end up in a worse place than if we had stayed with the EU.
 
davewhite04 said:
I'm pretty confident we'll still trade, albeit with tariffs at both end possibly, with EU countries. This "technology", would it be a logistical nightmare if we got it from another provider(possibly at a cheaper price, might take a few years)?
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Oh, yes we will still trade but it will be more expensive outside the single market. That cost will pass down to everyone as end users - and rail/public transport is already widely criticised for being expensive! And it also raises the question of the spending power of the government and the industry itself to fund expansion and enhancement projects across the country.

I work in the rail industry so I will use that as an example. The technology that drives our infrastructure across the country and in new projects is manufactured and developed in various EU countries. We aren't just talking about the stuff that goes out trackside that you see, I'm talking about the software and tools used to design everything. It has been through many, many years of R&D and has to meet particular safety standards, EMC and other compliance with European and UK standards. It's designed to a particular safety level - after all, it's people's lives we're talking about here. Above all that has to go through product trials and introductions and ultimately acceptance in the UK market so it is approved for use in the industry. This is in no way a quick process. Next generation technology systems that are due to come into use such as ETCS are all based on the same standards used across Europe. Standardisation (another benefit of being part of the EU) means we have a say over what can and can't be done - what is beneficial to us. To redevelop these products and reintroduce them is quite simply, not feasible.

Oh and there is precedent because the same companies provide the same technology to other areas of the world - at significant extra cost.

davewhite04 said:
Considering the times we live,I don't think this is a "bad" thing(Snoopers Charter). But that is another thread.
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I and many others will disagree. I think everyone has a right to privacy and as a human right the Snoopers Charter is in direct contradiction to this. I don't agree with the stance "If you've got nothing to hide...". I think it is very much a matter for this thread because it's a prime example of how the EU protects us!

davewhite04 said:
This is uncharted territory, I would think that the government will not go back in time, and forcefully make life worse for our people. I'm convinced employment laws that are detrimental to employees will not pass parliament.

But again, uncharted territory, we'll see how the Tories handle it.
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Absolutely - I think you have far more faith in our government than I :)
 
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Six6siX said:
Oh and as a consequence of leaving, I am also concerned about safety - not globally particularly, but at home in this country.

The fact is that the campaigning rhetoric has enabled a particular view on immigration and immigrants to effectively be more socially acceptable. I am worried that there will be more 'casual' racism and certainly, the perception from outside Britain is that we are not keen on people from other countries.

Being part of the EU gave us the ability to proudly say we are open to other cultures and people. That's not to say we aren't or that we have to be a part of the EU to do that, but actively exiting an arrangement like the EU is strong position to take against it.
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If you are a British citizen before/after we leave the EU, you are British. If the racists try anything unlawful, verbally, they will be dealt with, physically they will be jailed. No change there. We will employ many immigrants with the required skills from all over the World, just as we have already done. I believe we have enough unskilled labour though, at this point in time, which hopefully will change depending how long it takes for the country to flourish once again.
 
Gigabit said:
I agree and so because of that, it's goodbye free market and hello trade deals. Those will take years to negotiate so hello tariffs in the meantime.
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depends... could be partial free access - ze Germans would certainly be keen on some form of hybrid solution (just don't mention that in Burnsey's prediction thread started a few months ago as he only wants simple binary answers)
 
davewhite04 said:
If you are a British citizen before/after we leave the EU, you are British. If the racists try anything unlawful, verbally, they will be dealt with, physically they will be jailed. No change there. We will employ many immigrants with the required skills from all over the World, just as we have already done. I believe we have enough unskilled labour though, at this point in time, which hopefully will change depending how long it takes for the country to flourish once again.
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Oh, I know any issues would be dealt with - I don't doubt it. And I don't have any problems with the issue raised about immigration levels. It's a valid concern. But I think the way in which it has manifested feelings towards minorities around the country is unprecedented.

It's not a nice feeling to have to live in a state of perpetual unknowing of whether you are actually welcome or not. Knee jerk or not, there are already many cases of people not understanding the difference between EU/non-EU immigration, jokes around offices, send them back etc all. In addition to the isolated sentiments that existed before all this.

Its discouraging to see that so many more people with these views are coming out of the woodwork.
 
Rroff said:
Until we have a massive shift in human nature peace and stability often comes through having a robust and substantial defensive capability.

People have a lot of fear of nuclear weapons but they are a large part of why we've had relative peace and stability for the last 30 years or so.
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We recently re-instated our British Embassy in Iran which is a great start for peace in the Middle East. Hopefully this will continue. Putin had very little respect for the EU, so expect friendlier terms with them. China we have good relations, as with India. Our main unknown is how EU member countries will interact with us as far as peace goes, and Germany are perhaps our greatest ally.

I don't think nuclear weapons and creating World armies will actually do anything positive, I just see it as aggression, which personally I want nothing to do with(1 of the reasons to leave).
 
Rroff said:
There are a few industries that can play on the fact that people want to progress to effectively coerce people into signing out of it but for a lot of the more menial work, where often people don't have the luxury of being able to tell the employer to shove it if they aren't getting fair overtime, etc. it has gone a long way to stopping exploitation. The interesting thing is that a good percentage of the leave voters are ones that will be directly affected if the WTD and other regulations are removed but sadly there are a lot that will be affected that didn't vote for it either.

That said the EU also tied a lot of companies up in unnecessary red tape so it isn't a completely one sided story.
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But there isnt overtime rates in those menial industries any more thanks to the abundance of cheap EU labour.

Its jist paid at standard rate for say doing an extra shift on a sunday in a supermarket.
 
Six6siX said:
Oh, I know any issues would be dealt with - I don't doubt it. And I don't have any problems with the issue raised about immigration levels. It's a valid concern. But I think the way in which it has manifested feelings towards minorities around the country is unprecedented.

It's not a nice feeling to have to live in a state of perpetual unknowing of whether you are actually welcome or not. Knee jerk or not, there are already many cases of people not understanding the difference between EU/non-EU immigration, jokes around offices, send them back etc all. In addition to the isolated sentiments that existed before all this.

Its discouraging to see that so many more people with these views are coming out of the woodwork.
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This type of behaviour in the workplace needs to be reported to your local MP, or ideally the manager(unless they are racist).

No doubt this will be talked about in the House of Commons in the coming weeks. Expect warnings.
 
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