What would be an undisputed reference AV setup?

[sid]

It makes sense. It's that given stereo or multi-channel for films, give me the multi-channel system. Since it's a hobby/interest then the extra expensive really is irrelevent to people into it, if you like it, and want it you'll pay for it. If you can afford to, then why limit yourself to 2 channel just because?

If you have that sort of expendible money on your Hi-Fi, what's another £10,000 or so for the HT?



Then how do you get the full audio spectrum from film soundtracks? Many film LFE tracks go down to 10hz, can your amp and speakers handle that at reference levels? No so you need a subwoofer, unless you want distortion city?

Ok this has slightly gone off topic

I tend to agree with squiffy that you do need more than 2 speakers for AV.

What do you mean by 10hz at reference levels? i.e. 0db? i.e. insanely loud?

I can barely put my amp to -30db and this thing is rated at 30w/channel at 1% distortion. So does that mean at 0db I will be getting 30W / channel?

sid

 

[squiffy]

hz is the frequency of the material, sub bass is around 10-25hz.
Reference level is when you've calibrated the system to 75dB for all speakers, and with the amp then set at 0dB. If you don't calibrate the speakers they'll be at a uneven volume. You're "supposed" to then listen at 00dB, but I find that's too loud also. My level is -20dB, calibrated.

But given loudest sections of a movie can be quite demanding on your gear, plus the material being played, in this case sub bass you will probably find your main speakers distorting, if set to full range. What you usually do is set a higher crossover point. The subwoofer will then handle the lower bass.

It sounds like your amp isn't very capable, 30W output at 1% is quite high THD, and quite low power. I would be careful with that volume control. You don't want to fry your tweeters. Does it sound harsh and bass start to sound muddy at higher levels? If it does it means the amp is struggling.

Put on Toy Story 2 and Titan AE, I've used systems that just cannot handle the dynamics from these two films.

 

[sid]

hz is the frequency of the material, sub bass is around 10-25hz.
Reference level is when you've calibrated the system to 75dB for all speakers, and with the amp then set at 0dB. If you don't calibrate the speakers they'll be at a uneven volume. You're "supposed" to then listen at 00dB, but I find that's too loud also. My level is -20dB, calibrated.

But given loudest sections of a movie can be quite demanding on your gear, plus the material being played, in this case sub bass you will probably find your main speakers distorting, if set to full range. What you usually do is set a higher crossover point. The subwoofer will then handle the lower bass.

It sounds like your amp isn't very capable, 30W output at 1% is quite high THD, and quite low power. I would be careful with that volume control. You don't want to fry your tweeters. Does it sound harsh and bass start to sound muddy at higher levels? If it does it means the amp is struggling.

Put on Toy Story 2 and Titan AE, I've used systems that just cannot handle the dynamics from these two films.

Well lookin at your 10k kit, mines bit of joke as you've probably got more expensive cables lol

The AMP is a pioneer VSX c300, Sub is a MS309, front are tannoys mercury mx3s, centre is a mission m70c and rears are eltax concept 180s. so basically what was in offer on the day.

Its pretty much impossible to calibrate this system on the amp and I don't have a SPL meter either

The base isn't very tight, (BTW is it ok to turn the sub power to max at the back? or do I have to let it run in for a while? i've had this unit for about 2 weeks now so a fair few hours)

Unfortunately I don't have either of those 2 films and since i've never heard something proper, its hard to know what you mean, I only recently worked out what tight bass is lol

sid

 

[vintage-x]

All this talk of 10k plus systems makes me sound small with my £900 onkyo amp and q-acoustics 5.1 speakers.

Saying that though my system does it for me ive had it for only a few days and it still makes me go wow weather listening to music or watching a film

10k system my left bum cheak

 

[squiffy]

Well lookin at your 10k kit, mines bit of joke as you've probably got more expensive cables lol

The AMP is a pioneer VSX c300, Sub is a MS309, front are tannoys mercury mx3s, centre is a mission m70c and rears are eltax concept 180s. so basically what was in offer on the day.

Its pretty much impossible to calibrate this system on the amp and I don't have a SPL meter either

The base isn't very tight, (BTW is it ok to turn the sub power to max at the back? or do I have to let it run in for a while? i've had this unit for about 2 weeks now so a fair few hours)

Unfortunately I don't have either of those 2 films and since i've never heard something proper, its hard to know what you mean, I only recently worked out what tight bass is lol

sid

Set the crossover on the amp to small 80hz, including subwoofer. On the subwooferback panel itself down the volume to minimum and the crossover to maximum.

Output the test tone on the amp and adjust the level per channel so it appears to be of a identical volume. Do the same for the subwoofer.

You shouldn't need to set the volume on the subwoofer to maximum, you want the sub to blend into the soundfield, not be heard over the other speakers. Watch a demo sequence, pay attention to the subwoofer. If you can hear it's parping, whoomping or boomy then it's set to high.

 

[sid]

Set the crossover on the amp to small 80hz, including subwoofer. On the subwooferback panel itself down the volume to minimum and the crossover to maximum.

Output the test tone on the amp and adjust the level per channel so it appears to be of a identical volume. Do the same for the subwoofer.

You shouldn't need to set the volume on the subwoofer to maximum, you want the sub to blend into the soundfield, not be heard over the other speakers. Watch a demo sequence, pay attention to the subwoofer. If you can hear it's parping, whoomping or boomy then it's set to high.

OK the amp is so basic I can only set Cross over frequencies to 100hz at lowest.

The amp will only test tone the speakers not the SUB, I have the sub set to auto on when signal is detected, during the test tone it sometimes doesn't come on, and even when its on, the sound is extremely low and deep, you have to be extremely quiet to hear.

Hence I have a uncalibrated system. mind you it still sound fine to me lol

sid

 

[DRZ]

hz is the frequency of the material, sub bass is around 10-25hz.
Reference level is when you've calibrated the system to 75dB for all speakers, and with the amp then set at 0dB. If you don't calibrate the speakers they'll be at a uneven volume. You're "supposed" to then listen at 00dB, but I find that's too loud also. My level is -20dB, calibrated.

What on earth are you going on about?

If you have calibrated your amplifier so that the power amp is outputting a full-scale input driving your speakers at 75dB at 1m then you are an idiot. Especially if you think its too loud!

By the way, in a properly set up room with all the speakers the same distance from the listening position (barring any strange acoustics), unless you have a spectacularly poor amplifier all of the channels should be at the exact same level out of the box.

You talk of calibration too - what sound level meter type do you have, what did you calibrate that with and where did you calibrate the calibrator?

 

[squiffy]

unless you have a spectacularly poor amplifier all of the channels should be at the exact same level out of the box.

Wrong. You do know of speaker senstivity right? I use identical poweramps - Audiolab 8000PX x 2 - to my sides and surrounds. NHT HDP-2 dipoles and Definitive Technology BP-2X. At the same setting on my processor, the test tone on the BP-2 is FAR louder. I need to decrease the BP-2 channel setting to match the NHT.

As for don't know what I'm on about, you don't. And pay attention. Did I say I calibrate the speakers from 1M? No it's fairly obvious you do it from the LP. Pink noise test tone from the processor to each channel, adjusting each channel sitting at my LP until it reads 75dB.

Methinks you need to RTM or watch avia DVD.

I use the radio shack meter. Using internal test tones. You don't need to calibrate the meter, as it's a single tone, I'm not plotting out frequency graphs so inaccuracy across the range won't matter. If it's inaccurate by 3dB the whole system won't be accurate to reference, but each speaker will be correct relative to each other, which is important.

It's unlikely you'll have all 6-8 speakers with identical distance, the rears/surrounds will likely be closer. Therefore you will need to calibrate. Throw in difference in sensitivity, plus the subwoofers difference in amp gain/own volume control and it's a must.

 

[DRZ]

Well I did say channels at the same level, making an assumption in my head we were talking about a system where all of the speakers are identical (bar the centre, of course).

75dB is a bit quiet, wouldnt you say? Especially for a fullscale output from your preamp.

Pink noise isnt a tone, internal calibration is a joke and I didn't ask you what brand name your SLM carried, I asked its type.

 

[squiffy]

Well I did say channels at the same level, making an assumption in my head we were talking about a system where all of the speakers are identical (bar the centre, of course).

75dB is a bit quiet, wouldnt you say? Especially for a fullscale output from your preamp. Actual output at 00dB would be probably 115dB+, my usual volume is about -20dB. I believe the test tone is probably a negative value of maximum dB levels in the decoder, as I don't think it would be a good idea to calibrate your system to 120dB with pink noise.

Pink noise isnt a tone, internal calibration is a joke and I didn't ask you what brand name your SLM carried, I asked its type.

75dB is what you usually calibrate to, as seen here..also on the Dolby site.

When MC-1 input and output levels are set properly, the entire system will be calibrated to play films at the level intended by the director. Setting the output levels is easy with a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter. Using the MC-1’s internally generated calibration signal, adjust the level of each output to the same relative level (75dB "C" weighting

Select INTERNAL NOISE TEST or EXTERNAL NOISE TEST from the
Output Levels menu. The INTERNAL NOISE TEST disables any EQ
functions, centers the Balance and Fader controls, and sets the system
volume to +00dB. The test signal circles the room according to the
speaker configuration you have defined in the Speaker Configuration
menu. For a full complement of speakers, the order is: Left Front,
Center, Right Front, Right Side, Left Side, Subwoofer, Right Rear, Left
Rear.

http://www.lexicon.com/products/download-details.asp?ID=6&FileID=59

Perhaps with low end gear the internal test tone is a joke, but certainly not with my gear. Yes I know technically pink/brown noise isn't a tone, a set frequency sinewave is a tone, everyone uses the term "test tone" when they're talking about calibration pink noise.

As for sound pressure meter, it's what everyone else uses to calibrate there systems. It's a radio shack a/c weighting meter. Like I said it doesn't have to be accurate or calibrated, if it's out then you calibrate to a unknown value ie 72dB but at least each speaker is the same.