EV general discussion

bigmike20vt said:
the one area I think the governments should do better (so separate from individual company perks) is instead of offering policies for huge company car new car tax breaks only, also offer something for people who buy 2nd hand EVs.

a 2nd hand EV is if anything better than getting a new car all the time.
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About 60% of new cars are purchased for fleet use. 80% of car transactions are second hand.

The policy makes sense as it incentivises business users to buy new EV which drive sales and adoptions. While generating a stream of well maintained second hand EV for private buyers that are 2-3 years old.

The incentive is built in. The fleet operator has already paid for the largest chuck of depreciation. You can get some amazing second hand EV deals, cheeper that some equivalent ICE cars of similar size, spec, mileage and age.
 
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crazyDAJT said:
About 60% of new cars are purchased for fleet use. 80% of car transactions are second hand.

The policy makes sense as it incentivises business users to buy new EV which drive sales and adoptions. While generating a stream of well maintained second hand EV for private buyers that are 2-3 years old.

The incentive is built in. The fleet operator has already paid for the largest chuck of depreciation. You can get some amazing second hand EV deals, cheeper that some equivalent ICE cars of similar size, spec, mileage and age.
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Erm there are more incentives can be applied for wider adoption such as charger VAT discount. That would help a lot of people to take up EV new or used.

And grants for blocks of flats for community level charging facilities.
 
There are already grants for blocks of flats and there used to be grants for private chargers but it was just a cash bung to those who didn’t need it as they were buying it anyway.

You can get a charger for under £500, VAT off that isn’t going to move the needle.

If anything the government has made chargers more expensive because of their regulations.

Edit: they’ve also bunged a load of cash to local councils to get local charging set up.
 
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pc-guy said:
Erm there are more incentives can be applied for wider adoption such as charger VAT discount. That would help a lot of people to take up EV new or used.

And grants for blocks of flats for community level charging facilities.
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As as above. Grants are in place for flats and places like camp sites. Some are very generous.

VAT on public charging is annoying but not going to do much.

The biggest thing that needs to be done is solving the issue to alow people without drive ways to charge cars cost effectively overnight. A significant % of households will not have access to cheep electricity to charge cars. So EV makes no sense.

That and DNO’s connecting ultra rapids.
 
The main reason why the likes of Norway have the EV penetration they do is not only because of EV incentives, it’s also the punitive taxation of ICE vehicles.

Rather than cutting fuel duty every year and slapping VED on EVs like the U.K. government has, they slapped a punitive purchase tax on ICE cars.

They also changed the law so that those who live in flats must have access to EV chargers e.g. freeholders/landlords are not incentivised to install, they must install them.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The main reason why the likes of Norway have the EV penetration they do is not only because of EV incentives, it’s also the punitive taxation of ICE vehicles.

Rather than cutting fuel duty every year and slapping VED on EVs like the U.K. government has, they slapped a punitive purchase tax on ICE cars.

They also changed the law so that those who live in flats must have access to EV chargers e.g. freeholders/landlords are not incentivised to install, they must install them.
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I agree with all of the above.

ATM there is no carrot for switching to EV and whilst government and Whitehall is using the stick to beat EV owners as well. It’s senseless.

It is worth remembering that policies are not made up by politicians. They are formulated and framed out by civil servants at Whitehall departments. While lobby politicians will only go certain direction, if the bias again EV is entrenched in the minds of working civil servants then we stand no chance of getting things turned around.
 
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crazyDAJT said:
The biggest thing that needs to be done is solving the issue to alow people without drive ways to charge cars cost effectively overnight. A significant % of households will not have access to cheep electricity to charge cars. So EV makes no sense.
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Absolutely this. We can't sit back and say that EVs will work for most people when the caveat is - if you have off road parking.

I was in Coventry the other week and the streets near the hotel I was staying at had a decent number of charging poles for on street parking. It was student central and as uni had packed up for the year it wasn't particularly busy which may explain why I didn't see any used but it looked like a decent provision that had been put in place.

Conversely I've seen a couple of frankly absurd installations. Massive units that you would expect to see in a service station tacked onto the end of a road built up on a massive plinth twice as high as the curb. A real eyesore and not providing any real solution for the row of 40 odd houses on that street.

If implemented properly the on street charging issue isn't a barrier. It's just the scale of what needs to be put in and the timeframe to get there that remains in question.
 
pc-guy said:
I agree with all of the above.

ATM there is no carrot for switching to EV and whilst government and Whitehall is using the stick to beat EV owners as well. It’s senseless.

It is worth remembering that policies are not made up by politicians. They are formulated and framed out by civil servants at Whitehall departments. While lobby politicians will only go certain direction, if the bias again EV is entrenched in the minds of working civil servants then we stand no chance of getting things turned around.
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Im not sure I agree with the last part, everything the current administration has done over the last decade has basically lacked an overarching cohesive strategy, that is 100% on the elected politicians.

The strategy is effectively ‘civil servants do net zero. Oh BTW, you can’t raise taxes on fossil fuels or anything fossil fuel powered or fund any sensible infrastructure or mandate landlords to do anything - crack on’.

It’s no wonder you have a load of random policies which make no sense and are completely ineffective when you add them all together.
 
crazyDAJT said:
About 60% of new cars are purchased for fleet use. 80% of car transactions are second hand.

The policy makes sense as it incentivises business users to buy new EV which drive sales and adoptions. While generating a stream of well maintained second hand EV for private buyers that are 2-3 years old.

The incentive is built in. The fleet operator has already paid for the largest chuck of depreciation. You can get some amazing second hand EV deals, cheeper that some equivalent ICE cars of similar size, spec, mileage and age.
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I get that it is a good supplier of 2nd hand cars however I see it as a huge tax benefit for people who are already incredibly well paid whilst those who earn less have no such benefit.

a good friend.of mine (and I don't begrudge him it) has a brand new model Y which works out I think he said under £400 a month and that includes all wear and tear etc.

company perks is 1 thing, that is up to the employer but it's the tax breaks which I think are one sided and unfair (tho obviously if you can get them then get them!)
 
Demon said:
Its a communication thing..

1. Now that EVs are much much cheaper to a point that there are many EVs under £10k now that are fairly credible and for £13k you get a good ID.3 or similar, and that the company SS Schemes often have good deals on various cars (especially second hand on our one!), these are all accessible to our production staff at the normal monthly figures they spend on their cars now.
2. The saving to an employee is really only ~7.5p/kwh which isn't that much overall, even for high mile commuters (18K Miles PA) that's only ~£30 a month.. if doing 5k Miles commuting that's a whopping £8.22 a month.. it's bugger all..
3. People know there is a push for EVs from the government and understand incentives.. However in our case, its more to just soften the blow to anyone that is venturing into EVs because their is no BIK (yet) on charging in work, when their is, we'll do what we can.

FYI, On our SS Scheme, a 2021 ID.3 58kwh with 10-12k miles is ~£276 a month for a low tax bracket earner, that includes everything, so with fuel savings on top that is quite impressive, quite a few of our production staff are starting to ask more and more and I am always happy to go over figures with them, it is amazing how many buy cars on PCP and in reality are spending over £500 a month on the amortised deposit/finance/insurance/servicing/tyres/maintenance etc..
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Yes. That's about the same as what we can get.

One big bill on the 207 and I might bite as everything is included
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
The main reason why the likes of Norway have the EV penetration they do is not only because of EV incentives, it’s also the punitive taxation of ICE vehicles.
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Company car EV adoption has shown this to be an extremely effective method. Even people that don't really want to go EV yet can't ignore a 25% difference in BIK rates.

It may be too late for this now but I can't see why there wasn't a phased introduction of EVs by removing (or deinsentivising) ICE cars based on their power outputs. i.e you want a 400+ BHP car... That'll be an extra £#### in tax.

Performance models, big SUVs etc. would then naturally become EV and people would be happy to drive them because they would be a premium product. Drop the requirement by 25 bhp every year and more mainstream models start to switch to EV. The 75 bhp city cars and superminis would be last to switch by which time the infrastructure is there and the cost trickle down would be in full effect.

I'm sure there is a massive flaw to my utopian vision of adoption but it seems more realistic to me than simply stating no ICE after 2030/35 'because net zero'.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Im not sure I agree with the last part, everything the current administration has done over the last decade has basically lacked an overarching cohesive strategy, that is 100% on the elected politicians.

The strategy is effectively ‘civil servants do net zero. Oh BTW, you can’t raise taxes on fossil fuels or anything fossil fuel powered or fund any sensible infrastructure or mandate landlords to do anything - crack on’.

It’s no wonder you have a load of random policies which make no sense and are completely ineffective when you add them all together.
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for sure long term planning is down to political decisions.

but things like retrospective taxing - i am sure thats someone at the whitehall came up with the numbers in one of the options.

the details and figures are 100% whitehall and the various options are presented and the politicians then make their "informed decisions".
 
lordrobs said:
Company car EV adoption has shown this to be an extremely effective method. Even people that don't really want to go EV yet can't ignore a 25% difference in BIK rates.
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not everyone wants to lease.

as a matter of fact, privately leased car is a tiny minority for all the cars on british roads. its going to have minimal impact on the roads if it just deals with single digit % of cars every year. for the 0 carbon to hit target, we need something like 15% cars on the road replaced over the next 6yrs.

scrappage schemes to encourage people to swap their inefficient gas guzzlers were hugely successful and had the desire benefit of cleaning up air. ok not so much of the latest ULEZ expansion in london - that is a complete utter poo show in how it was run.
 
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jpaul said:
how much do/will the Kwh cost your company if they are providing them free at work ? and the saving becomes significant for those, especially with private phevs/ev and no home charging.
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Are you as bitter about those who have kids and so get tax free childcare? A benefit which is worth significantly more than the ~£20 for free charging
 
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Method of payment is irrelevant unless you 100% are keeping the car for a long, long time. For the vast majority of new and nearly new car buyers the calculation needs to be how much are you happy to pay to use a vehicle for a year, with all costs considered, including fuel, insurance, maintenance, tax and MOT etc. TCO for the period you want it for divided by the number of years is all that matters if you have zero intention to keep it, and if you can see the future the value of the car at the end of that period.
 
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