Caporegime
No,it's not different. Companies that can make EVs that appeal to customers will thrive, those that can't won't. That's how markets work. The landscape doesn't change the mechanism.
When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
-
- Tags
- electric
No,it's not different. Companies that can make EVs that appeal to customers will thrive, those that can't won't. That's how markets work. The landscape doesn't change the mechanism.
Soldato
Its a forced 'market' therefore not the market.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
You mean they'll close their UK sales and manufacturing and just sell their products elsewhere in the world?
Who wins there?
you can say they/nissan are blackmailing the govt (who already gave them subsidies in the past) but if they can't sell the ev's because of lack of charging infrastructure investment and they are having to hike
product prices to cover those fines, that's a vicious circle ... and like for, just announced uk stellantis down-sizing, they'll do the same.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,675
IF the government backtrack i feel really sorry for the car companies which have at the expense of short term profits chosen to modernise their cars and go EV.
any changes now completely screws them over. If this happens why should businesses believe anything the government says going forward ? its not like the car companies have not had a significant amount of warning.
Ford have just laid off a bunch of staff, because electric cars are not selling... perhaps, however maybe that is because Ford are hardly releasing inspiring EVs.... yes the puma is coming at some point, but right now we have the explorer, the mustang and the capri, all of those are really expensive cars, and at least 2 of them are just sat on a generic platform (not sure about the mach E) and offer nothing new which wasnt already available, but at a price premium.
Toyota have been throwing shade at EVs since day 1, using FUD, and promises of unproven tech to try to keep people buying ICE vehicles. Despite looking tidy (imo) their EVs are lacklustre.
OTOH MG, Tesla, Hyundai, Kia and now even Jaguar (crap advert and new logo aside
) are really running with it. It really screws them over if the government renegue on their promises now imo
when government comes up with plans which are going to cost businesses millions to adapt, unless there is a damn good reason they have to be relied upon to go through with it, otherwise those who invest based on those pledges are gonna be screwed.
IF some people simply refuse to buy an EV and instead stick with their ICE car or buy a 2nd hand ICE car instead, well that may not be great for the car makers pockets........ but environmentally its still a win as - to a point - its better to get more use out of the existing cars anyway.
any changes now completely screws them over. If this happens why should businesses believe anything the government says going forward ? its not like the car companies have not had a significant amount of warning.
Ford have just laid off a bunch of staff, because electric cars are not selling... perhaps, however maybe that is because Ford are hardly releasing inspiring EVs.... yes the puma is coming at some point, but right now we have the explorer, the mustang and the capri, all of those are really expensive cars, and at least 2 of them are just sat on a generic platform (not sure about the mach E) and offer nothing new which wasnt already available, but at a price premium.
Toyota have been throwing shade at EVs since day 1, using FUD, and promises of unproven tech to try to keep people buying ICE vehicles. Despite looking tidy (imo) their EVs are lacklustre.
OTOH MG, Tesla, Hyundai, Kia and now even Jaguar (crap advert and new logo aside
) are really running with it. It really screws them over if the government renegue on their promises now imowhen government comes up with plans which are going to cost businesses millions to adapt, unless there is a damn good reason they have to be relied upon to go through with it, otherwise those who invest based on those pledges are gonna be screwed.
IF some people simply refuse to buy an EV and instead stick with their ICE car or buy a 2nd hand ICE car instead, well that may not be great for the car makers pockets........ but environmentally its still a win as - to a point - its better to get more use out of the existing cars anyway.
Last edited:
Soldato
Caporegime
Yes, all those big markets not doing this.
The companies who are making better cars. Because that's how markets work.
Which is all of them. We're not talking about the 2035 ban here. Which other big market operates a quota system like this which will fine manufacturers this year?
I think you must either misunderstand how the system works (You seem to think the rest of the world is doing the same thing for a start, which implies you've confused it with the 'ban' on petrol cars) or how a market works.
A market does not generally work by having the government artificially restricting sales by imposing fines on manufacturers for producing the products the market is demanding, whilst rewarding them for producing products the market doesn't demand at greater scale than it does demand them.
Last edited:
Caporegime
The EU and the US. The schemes don't operate in exactly the same way but the upshot is the same - EVs must make up a rising percentage of sales.
Although both schemes are in political trouble and may well end up dropped or scaled back.
Last edited:
No, they do not. Not in the same way as this. They are materially different ways of achieving it which have less of the issues this system is finding.
Please do not think I am against any form of mandating the production of ever more efficient vehicles through regulation. As you said earlier, that sort of thing has always happened and always will. But there is a difference between that approach and this approach.
Last edited:
Caporegime
The differences are unimportant to the discussion. They're still not places manufacturers can run away to and sell their legacy cars, manufacturers can adapt, make EVs or they can die.
The differences are fundamental to the discussion.
Perhaps have a read of the European Union policy and notice how different the approach is and how less 'just fine them £15k per car' it is.
Last edited:
I've seen exactly the same thing, it's pretty annoying! Because I WFH 3 days a week, on the WFH days I'm happy for the car to be ready by 11am (since, if it offers a 9am-11am charge slot, I can make use of that while at home), but on WFO days I need it ready by 8am.
Changing the ready time seems to set the vehicle charge limit to 50%. I need 50% for a round trip to the office, so I really do need to be careful to re-adjust the charge limit to a more sensible, less squeaky-bum amount.
I hear the comments about "It's not a market", but, we've other rules as well which distort away from true market forces - things like: you can't buy banned products (creosote, asbestos, halon fire extinguishers) at all, you can't buy 'cheaper' (but inferior / unsafe) products (chlorine-washed chicken, electricals which don't comply with our safety regulations etc).
The financial sums involved are far greater, but is this not a rinse/repeat of the same thing?
Here's an interesting article if anyone wants to read it.
It has figures and pretty graphs that people can fact check or refute as well.
newautomotive.substack.com
It has figures and pretty graphs that people can fact check or refute as well.
Petrol and diesel car sales stall as electric cars continue to pick up pace
Global EV Tracker: Insights from 40+ markets accounting for 85% of car sales.
newautomotive.substack.com
Soldato
I'm happy for them to change the targets to appease the companies that are going to be over taken by Chinese companies, and they'll end up making cuts anyhow. People always laughed at the thought of buying Japanese cars, and more recently Korean cars, and look at the percentage of sales they make up these days. "Big oil" wants to protect itself from the losing battle and what better way to do that than sow continuous disinformation and slow down the uptake of the competition, in the mean time the worlds second largest superpower with virtually no oil is going to have their cake and eat it.
That's the funny thing about figures and statistics, it depends on your outlook as to how you interpret them.Here's an interesting article if anyone wants to read it.
It has figures and pretty graphs that people can fact check or refute as well.
Petrol and diesel car sales stall as electric cars continue to pick up pace
Global EV Tracker: Insights from 40+ markets accounting for 85% of car sales.
Maybe I misread the tone but it seemed that you posted that link in the context that EVs are doing well sales wise but reading it, in the context of shifting people to primarily electric vehicles, it reads as a bit of a disaster.
Edit - actually, that isn't fair. The tone comes from the article headline, not your post. Brain fart moment!
Last edited:
Associate
This, sadly is the crux of it.
My Mum is 64 and has just ordered a brand new car on lease. An EV would be ideal as she only really does 20-30 mile journeys - and is never more than 80 miles from home. My Dad has a diesel they can use if they're driving somewhere long distance and they already have a charger installed in the house they moved into last year.
Shes ordered a Mild Hybrid as "It does 60mpg!" My Diesel A3 did that 15 years ago.
Even with the warranty she was too nervous to try something new.