Soldato
Don’t think they are planning a RHD Spark for the UK.
When are you going fully electric?
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They are meant to be producing some cars on the VW MEB platform, I'd expect Fiesta, Focus and Puma style cars at first. The Mach-E is in the same segment as a Kuga and is already available. Might see an S-Max/Galaxy segment based on MEB, it should flex to those types of vehicles. They just killed the Mondeo so don't expect an EV version of that. What else do ford even sell these days which isn't a Van?
I'd expect that the grant is going to go away in the next year so I wouldn't factor it into your purchasing choice, particularly from Ford as I don't think they have announced anything.
Soldato
The focus/puma version will basically be a mini Mach-e
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/ford/303121/ford-set-to-launch-mini-mustang-mach-e-electric-suv-in-2023
True, I said as much in this thread but I suppose they want to cut costs in Europe as they no longer sell ‘cars’ (other than the mustang) in the US and VW gave them that opportunity.
I guess the Mach-e platform was too costly to retool to something like a fiesta and VW gave them an ‘out’.
It’s been said for a long time that at least one of the major ‘car’ manufacturers will fold in this transition and Ford Europe may well be one of them. Outside of vans/pickups their line up is looking very sparse these days and you only tend to see a fiestas, puma, kuga out in the wild.
yes I can't see an explanation on the web about mach-e platform
what's this about https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/march-2021-and-q1-mach-e-u-s-sales-stats.5017/page-2
but, in the usa ... mar8
what's this about https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/march-2021-and-q1-mach-e-u-s-sales-stats.5017/page-2
but, in the usa ... mar8
Their market share of BEVs is meaningless in this context. No reasonable person expects Tesla to retain 80% of the market once it goes from 1% of car sales to 100%. It only works on the presumption it’s the whole market, but it isn’t. It’s silly reporting which is trying to push a narrative which doesn’t exist.
They only sold 6k Mach-e in the US, good start but a tiny fraction of fords sold.
Tesla didn’t ‘lose’ anything in the last qtr, if anything they beat expectations and continued to grow deliveries with Model S/X lines shutdown. In reality they make up a tiny fraction of the market and always have and likely always will.
They only sold 6k Mach-e in the US, good start but a tiny fraction of fords sold.
Tesla didn’t ‘lose’ anything in the last qtr, if anything they beat expectations and continued to grow deliveries with Model S/X lines shutdown. In reality they make up a tiny fraction of the market and always have and likely always will.
I guess the mach-e govt comment was the 39K uk budget impact , have ford decided how to respond,
but Biden offering subsidies there, on home grown ev's may change their ev market, like the Germans, I thought.
A more detailed analyis of tesla across eu/usa/cn markets https://seekingalpha.com/article/4411931-tesla-is-losing-market-share-in-every-major-car-market
but Biden offering subsidies there, on home grown ev's may change their ev market, like the Germans, I thought.
A more detailed analyis of tesla across eu/usa/cn markets https://seekingalpha.com/article/4411931-tesla-is-losing-market-share-in-every-major-car-market
But again, market share of just BEVs is a ridiculous measure because it assumes that is the market when it isn’t. It’s almost as ridiculous as Tesla’s market cap. No one in their right mind thinks Tesla is going to hold on to the vast majority of the BEV market as the entire world transitions to BEVs. Hands up, who thought Tesla was ever going to become a bigger company than the VW and all it’s associated brands?
That article takes a few very selective stats and puts a narrative around it. It mixes BEVs with PHEVs in parts and not others. It ignores (literally doesn’t even mention it) the fact Tesla has grown the the last qtr and sold more cars than they ever have and sold pretty much every car they have built.
That said I do agree, they are overvalued but the article only looks at car sales and ignore the energy division and the *potential* of having a very vertically integrated company with the ability to produce fully autonomous cars. That combined with the very selective stats make the premise of the blog post flawed.
That article takes a few very selective stats and puts a narrative around it. It mixes BEVs with PHEVs in parts and not others. It ignores (literally doesn’t even mention it) the fact Tesla has grown the the last qtr and sold more cars than they ever have and sold pretty much every car they have built.
That said I do agree, they are overvalued but the article only looks at car sales and ignore the energy division and the *potential* of having a very vertically integrated company with the ability to produce fully autonomous cars. That combined with the very selective stats make the premise of the blog post flawed.
Soldato
As you said, Tesla aren't just cars and will very much be about many other markets/industries in future.
The Tesla aura is wearing off, as we have said ford buying vw platform, and streamlining in the industry, is there enough space for them to grown and deliver the future promise of the large market capitalization;
China looks like the wild West where novelty of western goods is wearing off with the comparative quality of home manufacturers(given tesla issues too), massive economies of market,
and similarly europe where from a design and technology perspective the premium brands have caught up , and an eqc/e-tron/ix3 is more desirable on the driveway,
plus, encroachment from beneath, where known brand like hyundai, toyota, volvo, ford are making in-roads.
On the commercial side, toyota, scania, volvo, all making/developingg ev products, which can be maintained through existing paths.
Maybe Biden will protect their market, through home-soil subsidies, otherwise, long term it's looking like Nokia, rather than Apple.
China looks like the wild West where novelty of western goods is wearing off with the comparative quality of home manufacturers(given tesla issues too), massive economies of market,
and similarly europe where from a design and technology perspective the premium brands have caught up , and an eqc/e-tron/ix3 is more desirable on the driveway,
plus, encroachment from beneath, where known brand like hyundai, toyota, volvo, ford are making in-roads.
On the commercial side, toyota, scania, volvo, all making/developingg ev products, which can be maintained through existing paths.
Maybe Biden will protect their market, through home-soil subsidies, otherwise, long term it's looking like Nokia, rather than Apple.
I agree with a lot of what you have just said. I have the opportunity to drive a number of electric cars thanks to my job. Tesla are nice but they are certainly not the best, they had a good head start but think they will not be producing cars like we all think. Maybe they will just produce batteries that everyone else uses in their vehicles.
Tesla vehicles I like them, I like driving them. But the build quality is not great, the interior is more like a Mondeo, not high end like the price tag. Out of the cheaper EV’s I have driven at the moment I like the Honda E as a little puddle jumper, but if I had the money a Porsche Taycan would be the one I would buy.
Soldato
It's looking to be somewhat the other way around I'd say, with a good few incumbents become victims to their own lethargy and hand sitting. I'd say companies like Ford/GM/BMW are likely to become the next Kodak, saw the train coming but decided to stay on the tracks as they thought it would stop in time.
Can I ask what BEV's you have driven, just curious, as you spend a great deal of time contributing in here.
They are still outgrowing the market and there is plenty of scope for them to carve out their place in the market.
I’d seriously question the premise that an ix3 is more desirable than a model y. Sure the old S/X interiors were not good enough for the price, no says otherwise but no has really seen the new one yet. But the model 3/Y is more than good enough for the segments they are targeting.
I’ve never thought Tesla were ever going to take over but there is plenty of scope for them to become a reasonable sized player in the car market. We do have to remind ourselves they actually only sell 4 cars at the moment, two of which are too expensive. Their hatch could be a very interesting product for Europe, BEV hatches are all a bit lacklustre at the moment.
Tesla don’t actually produce batteries (yet), they use a lot of off the shelf cells like everyone else. It’s what they do with them that matters.
I’d seriously question the premise that an ix3 is more desirable than a model y. Sure the old S/X interiors were not good enough for the price, no says otherwise but no has really seen the new one yet. But the model 3/Y is more than good enough for the segments they are targeting.
I’ve never thought Tesla were ever going to take over but there is plenty of scope for them to become a reasonable sized player in the car market. We do have to remind ourselves they actually only sell 4 cars at the moment, two of which are too expensive. Their hatch could be a very interesting product for Europe, BEV hatches are all a bit lacklustre at the moment.
Tesla don’t actually produce batteries (yet), they use a lot of off the shelf cells like everyone else. It’s what they do with them that matters.
GM ultium looks to be pretty EV focused.
Soldato
Forget stuff like iX3 in model Y space. It’s the stuff like Nissan Ariya and Skoda Enyaq that will compete there - and do well. Tesla do produce their own cells aswell in Panasonic Partnership. It’s the whole pretence of Gigafactory in the 18650 abs 21700 format. The LFP in China from CATL is to meet domestic production until I guess Giga Shanghai expansion is complete.
Soldato
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BMW take part in Formula-E, so have been learning all the time & learning with the i3, which has great battery tech. Tbh, whoever cracks the solid state battery tech first is probably going to gain a lot of ground. Toyota will be an interesting company to watch. While Tesla have had a jump on others I think it's probably a more optimal time for some to be now switching more to EV's. Can Tesla maintain their lead longer term? Difficult to bet against Elon on one hand, but, who knows.
I suspect while some companies are slow to bring cars to market, there's probably a lot of R&D going on behind closed doors, notably by those with the deepest pockets.
One target BMW have is to produce the most environmentally friendly EV's, from manufacturing to recycling, interesting from the market perspective when core requirement for EV's is to "save the planet"
Quite like the look of the Lexus LF-Z
New Lexus LF-Z Electrified concept previews brand’s EV future - pictures | Auto Express
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Soldato
No I get the cheaper rate shown. Took about 2 weeks after I setup though for it to recognise, I also ordered the RFID card then too, much more straight forward.