When are you going fully electric?

[b0rn2sk8]

Manufacturers are also making very good margins on BEVs as supply has outstripped demand for years.

You can’t tell me an BEV Kona costs the markup over the ICE version.

Residuals have been really strong in EVs since the beginning, even 10 year old Leafs are still worth good money. I expect residuals will remain strong through to 2040 as people transition due to the lack of supply right through the new and used market. Don’t forget the current shortage is going to be felt in the used market for a decade if you think about how the prices creep down as cars age.

 

[Kenai]

Right... so either you lease and let the lease company take the gamble on whether their calculations will be correct or you buy the car and take a punt yourself... and I think it's smarter right now to do the former because of what you just said

That's going to be dependent on the lease deals themselves and whether they're really taking a punt - take a Polestar 2 direct lease for example, the 3 year lease cost for a Dual Motor Pilot Plus is £31,000, for a list price car of £53,000. Is it really a risk that it'll be worth less than £22,000 in 3 years?

 

[bimbleuk]

Manufacturers are also making very good margins on BEVs as supply has outstripped demand for years.

You can’t tell me an BEV Kona costs the markup over the ICE version.

Residuals have been really strong in EVs since the beginning, even 10 year old Leafs are still worth good money. I expect residuals will remain strong through to 2040 as people transition due to the lack of supply right through the new and used market. Don’t forget the current shortage is going to be felt in the used market for a decade if you think about how the prices creep down as cars age.

Harder to gauge as Tesla maybe the only company that publishes GM per model (~30%) and even that varies between factories. VW stated they were losing money on each ID.3 sold to begin with and the large autos rarely make more than single digit margins anyway.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yeah the idea Hyundai make more on BEV than ICE is misplaced in my view.

 

[Journey]

I see the Tesla have officially started opening up the Supercharger network to non-Tesla vehicles here in Europe, Dutch pricing only so far, it is ~€13pm month subscription with a 24c per kWh rate, or ~57c kWh without a subscription.

Wonder how long it wil be be until they open the firs tones up in the UK?

 

[Somnambulist]

New Megane EV looks aight

 

[Trifid]

New Megane EV looks aight

I'll be up for that as a current Megane driver.

 

[bimbleuk]

Wonder how long it wil be be until they open the firs tones up in the UK?

This may annoy a few peeps but you're welcome to my space as I've maybe supercharged 4 or 5 times in 2 years and the first time was just to see what it was like so drove down the M4 and back to the nearest location.

 

[Journey]

This may annoy a few peeps but you're welcome to my space as I've maybe supercharged 4 or 5 times in 2 years and the first time was just to see what it was like so drove down the M4 and back to the nearest location.

I don't need the SC network in my car, since the charging speed is limited to~46kWh on a good day. It will be nice to have the option to use it on longer journeys when you need/want a reliable charger that you can just plug-in and walk away though, and they are very well placed so far, and a load more are opening up in 2022, it should be the biggest network of Ultra-rapid chargers in the UK, so much so they'll have more than all the rest of them put together.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I dont know what the ratio of superchargers are in the UK that have CCS compared to total numbers. Probably pretty high now, an on the counter Rugby only has CCS.

 

[ianh]

Oooof just been looking at the used prices of electric cars - effectively £6k is bottom of the barrel for 10+ year old cars (battery life has to be a consideration I would think) and you really need £12k+ to even start looking for something newer (but still low spec like Zoes and Leafs) but ideally £20k+ really to get a decent newish electric vehicle (even an 8+ year old tesla is still £26k+).

I mean 80% of the EV's for sale on Autotrader are £25k+ so they're not going to get many "average wage or lower" people swap over with prices that high considering what you get for the money. I wonder how long it is (if ever) before you get "affordable" electric cars trickle down so the masses can consider swapping over for <£5k "decent but old" EV's in the same way you can still get ICE cars like that?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

While the Leaf, Zoe and Model S have been around for awhile, good electrics cars suitable for the masses (rather than early adopters) have only really been available in relatively small volumes from a large number of manufacturers for about 2 years and many of manufactures have openly said they will focus on higher priced (and margin) vehicles first.

Given we are in a car stock apocalypse (new and used) and petrol/diesel panic buying, it's not a surprise to anyone that that prices are going to stay high for some time. Have checked new ICe car prices recently. The cheapest, poverty spec edition of the UK's best selling car (Ford Fiesta) is nearly £16.5k, most cost significantly more.

 

[steve5424]

The new 2022 MG ZS ev went on sale today. With a new larger battery capable of 263 miles.

Looks great and not much more than the previous model.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mg/zs/356246/new-2022-mg-zs-ev-facelift-sale-now-priced-ps28495

 

[DRZ]

My partner and I recently took up Mini on their offer of a 48-hour extended test drive of the Mini Electric. She's looking to change car and for her commute etc an electric car is perfect. She's had her eye on the current Mini for a while so it made sense to take a serious look at it.

Firstly, it is of course hardly any different to a regular Mini. This is in some ways good, in other ways bad. I personally didn't like it as a car for various reasons but more importantly my partner didn't like it either. She thought she'd love the interior design but she didn't in the flesh. The seats were particularly uncomfortable for both of us and that was the final nail in the coffin really before it came to the actual electric bit.

For me, the driving dynamics were pretty poor. Obviously being an electric car it is heavy but I really felt as though the Mini did less to hide the weight than other cars. Torque steer on any moderate or higher acceleration was horrendous and not in an endearing way like the early JCWs did. It just felt... poor. It wasn't particularly engaging to drive and I didn't ever feel like I was being egged on to exploit the car's abilities like other Minis I have driven in the past - in fact it felt almost sterile. I also felt like the steering was just far too heavy in Sport mode but with even less steering feel. Horrid.

On the up side, the range while poor at about 105 miles on a full charge was surprisingly efficient at motorway speeds. Compared to the Honda e, the motorway efficiency was actually very impressive. I had an issue at a Pod Point rapid charger where it wouldn't allow me to finish the charge and unplug the cable which took a phone call to someone utterly clueless 15 minutes to resolve and another issue at a BP Pulse charger which took almost 30 minutes to resolve on the phone. Charging at Gridserve was totally painless (and at IKEA, free!) and while chatting with a Honda e owner at one of the Gridserve locations we started on a similar %age but the Mini charged considerably more quickly which was interesting. Charging seemed actually far better than I thought even though it is "only" 50kW. Gives me hope for cars with much larger capacities to actually be viable.

In all, not the car for us but one which was a very useful "real world" demonstrator of living with an electric car over ~400 miles.

 

[jpaul]

For me, the driving dynamics were pretty poor. Obviously being an electric car it is heavy but I really felt as though the Mini did less to hide the weight than other cars. Torque steer on any moderate or higher acceleration was horrendous and not in an endearing way like the early JCWs did.

I thought they had put the electronic torque vectoring used on the 128i and i3 onto mini to avoid that ? clearly not.

----

Harder to gauge as Tesla maybe the only company that publishes GM per model (~30%) and even that varies between factories. VW stated they were losing money on each ID.3 sold to begin with and the large autos rarely make more than single digit margins anyway.

Earlier linked article - Nissan R&D said BEV retail price should be cheaper than the phev variant, so I'd consider equivalent phev residual as the reference for future BEV value.

That's going to be dependent on the lease deals themselves and whether they're really taking a punt - take a Polestar 2 direct lease for example, the 3 year lease cost for a Dual Motor Pilot Plus is £31,000, for a list price car of £53,000. Is it really a risk that it'll be worth less than £22,000 in 3 years?

a very conservative residual indicating they are not sure of future value?; and/or pricing into that, a premium for 2/3 of market benefitting from BIK subsidy;
similar to chargers, too, where the subsidy influence price.

 

[Bar]

So decided to go to Electric and as my requirements are not high - not fussed on looks, local driving only (furthest relatives are 133 miles away), not looking to spend huge amounts Ive opted for a lease deal on a Hyundai Ioniq Premium SE. Appreciate that its not the best car, however for the price and availability (less than 300 per month - over 3 years with no deposit, and available in 3 weeks) its exactly what Im looking for. Fortunately Scotland has 1500 free to use charge points and there are several within 3 miles of me (lot more paid ones in the same distance) it seems a bit of a no brainer.

 

[Journey]

So decided to go to Electric and as my requirements are not high - not fussed on looks, local driving only (furthest relatives are 133 miles away), not looking to spend huge amounts Ive opted for a lease deal on a Hyundai Ioniq Premium SE. Appreciate that its not the best car, however for the price and availability (less than 300 per month - over 3 years with no deposit, and available in 3 weeks) its exactly what Im looking for. Fortunately Scotland has 1500 free to use charge points and there are several within 3 miles of me (lot more paid ones in the same distance) it seems a bit of a no brainer.

Ioniq is a very good car IMO, but the prices have shot up, but most cars have due to the global shortages. I am sure you will enjoy it, how long of a test drive did they let you have in it?

 

[Desmo]

I dont know what the ratio of superchargers are in the UK that have CCS compared to total numbers. Probably pretty high now, an on the counter Rugby only has CCS.

All Superchargers have CCS now. Original stalls that were Type 2 only have all been upgraded with dual cables with include CCS. All newer Superchargers are CCS only.

 

[ikra]

Have a hybrid car now, and I think I prefer this much over going full BEV. I'll wait till infrastructure is there and solid state batteries.

 

[Psycho Ned]

So decided to go to Electric and as my requirements are not high - not fussed on looks, local driving only (furthest relatives are 133 miles away), not looking to spend huge amounts Ive opted for a lease deal on a Hyundai Ioniq Premium SE. Appreciate that its not the best car, however for the price and availability (less than 300 per month - over 3 years with no deposit, and available in 3 weeks) its exactly what Im looking for. Fortunately Scotland has 1500 free to use charge points and there are several within 3 miles of me (lot more paid ones in the same distance) it seems a bit of a no brainer.

I’ve got a ‘classic’ Ioniq (28 KWh) one in premium SE trim and it’s a brilliant car! They’re fully loaded with kit for the money.