Soldato
Shhh it's where they pack the extra batteries
Nice to see some performance competition for Tesla which in turn could mean more performance model changes this year.
When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
-
- Tags
- electric
Shhh it's where they pack the extra batteries
Nice to see some performance competition for Tesla which in turn could mean more performance model changes this year.
Does anyone do that other than Volvo? It's one of the reason electric range is so **** on their XC90, etc.Shhh it's where they pack the extra batteries
Nice to see some performance competition for Tesla which in turn could mean more performance model changes this year.
Plaid's got the structural battery - but I haven't seen any chassis rigidity results that should bestow, versus m50/taycan;
Tunnels - apart from interior space issue and battery access/maintenance/cost issue, is the battery performance & cooling/heating efficiency significantly compromised ?
cooling circuit in the structural battery must be interesting too, since batteries are so integrated(& heat conducting) in chassis
Tunnels - apart from interior space issue and battery access/maintenance/cost issue, is the battery performance & cooling/heating efficiency significantly compromised ?
cooling circuit in the structural battery must be interesting too, since batteries are so integrated(& heat conducting) in chassis
Soldato
I’m expecting we will see the structural battery switchover on other models imminently too. I’m hoping it gets confirmed at the next product plan on 26th. Would be very interested in an M3P with the structural battery. I believe it’s being done mostly as a weight reduction so maintaining stiffness or increasing slightly and allowing them to remove other structures to save weight.
Tesla are all about the streamlined production to date. It will be interesting how they manage to integrate it into the 3/Y given they have 3 or 4 different battery types in production right now.
Even if they move the long range/P cars to the new design, the LFP cars are going to need a different chassis which doesn’t really make sense from a streamlined production point of view.
They will not have enough cells to switch all production to the new type, far from it actually. I expect they’ll artificially cork the performance of the new pack to keep it in line with the others until they can switch everything to it. They’ll want to avoid people holding off their purchase for the newer tech and there is already evidence of that happening online.
Even if they move the long range/P cars to the new design, the LFP cars are going to need a different chassis which doesn’t really make sense from a streamlined production point of view.
They will not have enough cells to switch all production to the new type, far from it actually. I expect they’ll artificially cork the performance of the new pack to keep it in line with the others until they can switch everything to it. They’ll want to avoid people holding off their purchase for the newer tech and there is already evidence of that happening online.
Soldato
No it hasn't, its the same format 18650 batteries just in a revised frame layout and tweaks to chemistry.
Just so we get this right... 'a structural battery' just means the lid becomes the floor of the car and its all glued together. Doesn't really do much for changes to the cooling system. Its basically what you do if you are not interested in ever separating the battery from the car ever again. Mean whilst the structural battery in my car can be removed for service and any end of life commitments.
Last edited:
Taycan battery is structural too
Soldato
The EVs based on a cross platform used to have T shape or maybe more common now the "Dog House" batteries where there's some under the rear seats to fit them in the compromised chassis.
yes they fooled me - tesla do seem to have glossed over the absence of structural on the plaid, is that implicit because cells need to be tableess like new 4680 cells, to allow mechanical/structural connection at both ends.
Cooling with the cells attached at both ends inside the structural floorplan, with thermal conductivity into that top and bottom will modify cooling needs.
I-pace batteries might be held together in structural packs, but there aren't torsional loads going through cells between top/bottom panels
indeed - designing lfp into structural battery would be most compatible with (lifetime ?) sealed structural pack, potential insurance company differentiation between structural/non too, and then any handling benefits.
Soldato
Plaid+ was the only 4680 cell anyway, they fooled no one paying attention, just those getting caught in the hype of words not engineering execution, alien dreadnought casting or whatever was gonna start with Model Y.
No because the 18650 cells have a cooling jacket between the cells didnt actually care what was connected at top and bottom and using the floor as part of the system just adds thermal mass which isnt good for control, nor cooling system in the baseplate is a nightmare for cold wet weather Again just glued in which also insulates it.
There no might about it, the frame does the work so the cells that swell and grow in the modules don't do anywwork. There doesn't need to be, its not an aircraft wingbox so the top skin and bottom in bending isnt actually something you really see (braziers loads not torsional), the dedicated beams are bolted at specific points to offer 36kNm/deg stiffness. it might surprise you but the cells cant actually take a huge amount of load.
You might have noted the 'benefit' from the structural battery actually means they have to move the cells AWAY from the sills such is the REDUCTION in cross car stiffness and managing side impact, its just easier to glue the battery in than bolt and thats the win for production time
They will just glue that in aswell.
Summary - loads of hype but the Tesla structural pack just means less parts and glued into the car. No wonder Tesla don't need a PR department.
tabless ones, permit mechanical connection to upper and lower panels.
I agree expansion of cells, could preclude them being structural, unless they have really accomodated that in their/4680 packaging; so, that, could indicate it is hype.
It’s all about getting the cost down, the side effect is getting the density up. That’s good so they can use them in other applications like the roadster and the semi. Hopefully they have thought through the repair process.
I really doubt we will be getting 400 mile model3/y any time soon.
I really doubt we will be getting 400 mile model3/y any time soon.
Britishvolt Northumberland Giga factory announcement/confirmation - so they don't seem to have any declared alliances with Samsung or Panasonic ...th big guys
they publicize they are part of the fair cobalt alliance, but that doesn't declare if they will have production facilities/capabilities for LFP, or newer tesla like tabless big cells
(even if not yet in production) if not, that seems short sighted.
Nissan gigafactory on the otherhand should be less parochial
they publicize they are part of the fair cobalt alliance, but that doesn't declare if they will have production facilities/capabilities for LFP, or newer tesla like tabless big cells
(even if not yet in production) if not, that seems short sighted.
Nissan gigafactory on the otherhand should be less parochial
Interesting comparison by Volvo building the ICE and Electric versions on the same production line. Takes 50,000 miles on a European mix of energy production to become greener than the ICE, 30,000 if using all renewable energy.
I think electric is the future and the improvement in local air pollution is a major plus but clearly battery production needs to improve considerably to reduce that initial CO2 cost.
Soldato
Do Volvo consider nuclear energy renewable?
I think I have now bought my last ICE car for daily use this week. I will continue to buy petrol fun cars, but I can't see me going for another petrol/diesel car next time, if there is a next time of course as I might just keep the one I now have and run it for a decade.
Thats always being my issue and my point about people driving 10 year huge V8s that they should scrap their cars and buy an electric one. When comparing to a 10 year old, you may well find you need to do over 100,000 miles on an EV before you would see any net CO2 gain.
It also means for my parents driving small engined cars and doing around 3500 miles per year, co2 wise it would be overall much more damaging for them to swap to buying EVs as the break even point is around 15 years.
Last edited:
Soldato
The company car junkies ( I shouldn’t l throw stones) taking new cars is a good place to get the electric penetration, new cars are there regardless and generally high mileage.
CO2 of course isn’t the sole pollutant.
CO2 of course isn’t the sole pollutant.
Soldato
My problem with EV’s is that my daily use might include a 50km round trip for grocery shopping, a similar trip towing a tonne of firewood/building materials and a 150km run to the airport and back all in one day with no opportunity to recharge between trips.
Soldato
On that day you might use a public charger.