When are you going fully electric?

i think Jag are about to massively shoot themselves in teh foot. apparently they are currently "too cheap"...... i mean.. the ipace is already 73k, but they are comparing themselves to cars going into 6 figures.

the thing is..... as much as i love the look of the ipace (and the F Type is sex on wheels imo) they do not have the reputation in terms of customer support or build quality to justify the same kind of prices as the top of the range audi, merc , Porsche etc imo.
Jaguar shine as the company which gives you more car for you money, and then you can maybe let slide their support issues etc.

if it is true they are looking to go (even more) up market i think they are doomed.
 
Well if they can sell less cars for more profit and actually fix the quality issues, the irony is their support may improve. Less cars to go wrong equals less faults to fix, equals reduced fix times given the same number of staff.
 
bigmike20vt said:
i think Jag are about to massively shoot themselves in teh foot. apparently they are currently "too cheap"...... i mean.. the ipace is already 73k, but they are comparing themselves to cars going into 6 figures.

the thing is..... as much as i love the look of the ipace (and the F Type is sex on wheels imo) they do not have the reputation in terms of customer support or build quality to justify the same kind of prices as the top of the range audi, merc , Porsche etc imo.
Jaguar shine as the company which gives you more car for you money, and then you can maybe let slide their support issues etc.

if it is true they are looking to go (even more) up market i think they are doomed.
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Weirdly they were doubling down on options on demand - like adding gear to your car even as it was working down the production line. Most other marques are trying to make the ordering process a real experience so that you get the spec right in the first place...
 
dLockers said:
like adding gear to your car even as it was working down the production line.
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(sorry) - isn't the production line a year+ long, so they need the possibility of adding new technology during build, or, for mind changes;
Many manufacturers re-organising supply lines post-covid/Ukraine eg local semiconductors should generally help build time/resilience - Mr Musks new lithium processing facility, too.
 
Murf said:
A fully electric XJ, or XF estate would be perfect for me. I just hate SUVs, but I want the practicality.
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The problem is the batteries live under the floor, so saloons/estates as we know them just can't exist like before without compromising boot space.

jpaul said:
(sorry) - isn't the production line a year+ long, so they need the possibility of adding new technology during build, or, for mind changes;
Many manufacturers re-organising supply lines post-covid/Ukraine eg local semiconductors should generally help build time/resilience - Mr Musks new lithium processing facility, too.
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Normally you lock in spec and it's untouchable aside from very few dealer options (normally dumb high margin stuff like 3k running boards [my abandoned f pace purchasing experience]). Any production line changes may impact options but generally at the expense of customer experience (removal of options to mitigate supply chain). Changes of mind are usually lolled out of the door.
 
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I always find it odd when something that has always been relatively niche is somehow regarded as a problem with EVs

Estates were hardly popular outside a few travelling reps and caravaners ;) and yet its an Ev problem that they focus on the section of the market most people actually want to buy, SUV type vehicles
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I always find it odd when something that has always been relatively niche is somehow regarded as a problem with EVs

Estates were hardly popular outside a few travelling reps and caravaners ;) and yet its an Ev problem that they focus on the section of the market most people actually want to buy, SUV type vehicles
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I don't think it's an EV problem. I'm aware they're satisfying the highest demand segments first for commercial reasons. But if I'm going to lease an electric car for 4 years, I'd rather an I5 Touring next year over an iX this year.
 
I prefer estates but tbh happy to buy an SUV if that's the way things are going. All EVs just have such small boots though in general - even for the monster 5m long cars the boot size is pretty small.
 
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despite just buying a luxury EV, i if they are to really take off what they need are smaller more affordable cars... but still with a genuine 150miles winter motorway range imo.

fiesta / puma / 106 kind of size but closer to 20k than 25k imo.

i know why they are going for bigger expensive cars.... more profit per vehicle, but imo that sector is still hugely lacking.

as i said earlier MG are helping, just need a smaller one than MG4 now.
i am really interested in the renault 5, it certainly has the looks imo, but if that comes out north of 30k like that little honda (and with crap range like it too) thing then its a bust imo.
 
chanjy said:
I prefer estates but tbh happy to buy an SUV if that's the way things are going. All EVs just have such small boots though in general - even for the monster 5m long cars the boot size is pretty small.
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Yeah they do need to find better ways to not impact this as such
My other half has a 330E and the boot is woeful. Hybrids are probably even worse a setup than pure EVs

I have to remind her constantly not to offer people airport lifts since its basically only possible for the two of us to do an airport run.
More than two people means there is nowhere to put the cases for the 3+ peoples luggage.
 
bigmike20vt said:
despite just buying a luxury EV, i if they are to really take off what they need are smaller more affordable cars... but still with a genuine 150miles winter motorway range imo.

fiesta / puma / 106 kind of size but closer to 20k than 25k imo.

i know why they are going for bigger expensive cars.... more profit per vehicle, but imo that sector is still hugely lacking.

as i said earlier MG are helping, just need a smaller one than MG4 now.
i am really interested in the renault 5, it certainly has the looks imo, but if that comes out north of 30k like that little honda (and with crap range like it too) thing then its a bust imo.
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Thats quite an ask.
I mean the basic ICE Fiesta is now £19k.
I am sure they will eventually get EV close to ICE in cost but the higher residuals at end of life (assuming they do still hold higher value) means the slightly higher up front cost should be fine.
 
There's a few smaller EVs coming down the road.

VAG Polo size EV (ID2 + others), Renault 5, etc. Peugeot e-208 already exists!

That smaller Tesla has also been rumoured but will be larger than those superminis, more Golf/ID3 sized I'd guess
 
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bigmike20vt said:
fiesta / puma / 106 kind of size but closer to 20k than 25k imo.
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Welcome to 2023 car prices !
Where an ICE base spec Fiesta with 75bhp is from £19.3k to £27.3k for the ST

52887037010_8974477c64_h.jpg
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Thats quite an ask.
I mean the basic ICE Fiesta is now £19k.
I am sure they will eventually get EV close to ICE in cost but the higher residuals at end of life (assuming they do still hold higher value) means the slightly higher up front cost should be fine.
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i am not convinced tbh and I think the traditional car manufacturers are having a laugh and hiding the costs with flashy specs.

There are affordable EVs in Japan which could tick a box over here and China....... loads of them. Car tax will be part of that i imagine but i dont believe that is all of it.

i am all for all singing all dancing EVs, but an entry level car without all the tech should be an option too.

yes batteries are pricey.... but so are engines, gearboxes and all that other stuff. Batteries have come down in price a fair bit over the last decade surely the build costs are similar now?

so sure.... a basic ice fiesta 19k.... so, then a basic ev fiesta of similar spec........... how could that not be say 22k? if the price of the battery is the argument then that is covered by the extra 3k as well as all the stuff not needed in an EV over an ICE
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yeah they do need to find better ways to not impact this as such
My other half has a 330E and the boot is woeful. Hybrids are probably even worse a setup than pure EVs

I have to remind her constantly not to offer people airport lifts since its basically only possible for the two of us to do an airport run.
More than two people means there is nowhere to put the cases for the 3+ peoples luggage.
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330e is the worst in the sense it's a retrofit in a car never intended to be a hybrid.
 
bigmike20vt said:
i am not convinced tbh and I think the traditional car manufacturers are having a laugh and hiding the costs with flashy specs.

There are affordable EVs in Japan which could tick a box over here and China....... loads of them. Car tax will be part of that i imagine but i dont believe that is all of it.

i am all for all singing all dancing EVs, but an entry level car without all the tech should be an option too.

yes batteries are pricey.... but so are engines, gearboxes and all that other stuff. Batteries have come down in price a fair bit over the last decade surely the build costs are similar now?

so sure.... a basic ice fiesta 19k.... so, then a basic ev fiesta of similar spec........... how could that not be say 22k? if the price of the battery is the argument then that is covered by the extra 3k as well as all the stuff not needed in an EV over an ICE
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I don't know enough about the real costs of actual engine etc production vs say batteries and motors to comment

Really though an Ev should have a longer useful lifetime and has really less to go wrong.

You have to look at total cost of ownership as opposed to straight purchase cost.
 
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