EV general discussion

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

i am not convinced tbh and I think the traditional car manufacturers are having a laugh and hiding the costs with flashy specs.

There are affordable EVs in Japan which could tick a box over here and China....... loads of them. Car tax will be part of that i imagine but i dont believe that is all of it.

i am all for all singing all dancing EVs, but an entry level car without all the tech should be an option too.

yes batteries are pricey.... but so are engines, gearboxes and all that other stuff. Batteries have come down in price a fair bit over the last decade surely the build costs are similar now?

so sure.... a basic ice fiesta 19k.... so, then a basic ev fiesta of similar spec........... how could that not be say 22k? if the price of the battery is the argument then that is covered by the extra 3k as well as all the stuff not needed in an EV over an ICE

I don't know enough about the real costs of actual engine etc production vs say batteries and motors to comment

Really though an Ev should have a longer useful lifetime and has really less to go wrong.

You have to look at total cost of ownership as opposed to straight purchase cost.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

330e is the worst in the sense it's a retrofit in a car never intended to be a hybrid.

I know its actually a great car for a hybrid but its got so much space taken up by engine, batteries, fuel tank etc
Hence it sucks *** in regards useable space.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I don't know enough about the real costs of actual engine etc production vs say batteries and motors to comment

Really though an Ev should have a longer useful lifetime and has really less to go wrong.

You have to look at total cost of ownership as opposed to straight purchase cost.

I am just going on this

How Much Does an Electric Car Battery Cost? (UK; 2024) | BookMyGarage

We estimate that the average electric car battery costs £7,235.07 in 2024. Find out why EV batteries are so expensive in this guide.

bookmygarage.com

expensive.. but not that expensive, not when you consider the stuff you dont need in an EV.

 

[Simon]

Try buying one from an OEM for that little

 

[sandys]

Less to go wrong or just different bigger stuff to go wrong, there's a lot of focus on the battery with EVs as if there is nothing else there, other bits like motors fail too, reduction gear etc, I'd never buy one on the basis it is going to be last longer due to less bits, it just a different set of bits, so much luck involved in that viewpoint

ICE or EV they will have their pros and cons, you want to go PHEV like me and you can open yourself up to the possibility of all the issues

 

[bigmike20vt]

ICE or EV they will have their pros and cons, you want to go PHEV like me and you can open yourself up to the possibility of all the issues

lol fair point. we have been looking at a bmw i3 - probably the 33kwh REX... from what i can tell however the vast majority of issues with the car are related to the petrol motor in it and was strongly reccomended to go for the pure EV, even if it meant pushing the boat out for the bigger battery.
(not gonna happen now, i am broke! )

 

[bigmike20vt]

Try buying one from an OEM for that little

that is always the case tho...... a car will always cost less new than the sum of its parts from a garage.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

They’ll all end up in the same place, crashed or cost more to repair than people are willing to spend.

My fear is that on a modern car, a headlight going out or a broken infotainment screen is going to start putting cars in the crusher because they are so complex and expensive on a lot of ‘run of the mill’ cars.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Where is the perception that EVs have small boots come from?

Hybrids sure, but not full BEVs.

The rear motors are bigger than anything ICE

 

[Simon]

that is always the case tho...... a car will always cost less new than the sum of its parts from a garage.

But we are talking about a comparison in parts. An engine is less than a battery , both to produce and replace

 

[Haggisman]

Where is the perception that EVs have small boots come from?

Hybrids sure, but not full BEVs.

Because they do?

Unless you're able/willing to spend north of £40k, the only options I'm aware of with a decent (e.g. > 400L) boot are limited to either the MG5/ZS, Kia Niro, or one of the hideous Rifter/eBerlingo/Vauxhall Combi type van/car monstrosities. Of those, only the MGs and Kia have what I would consider a reasonable range for a family car.

It is getting better though - there are a few new options coming to the market which have more space, but that's only really in the last year or 2.

I always find it odd when something that has always been relatively niche is somehow regarded as a problem with EVs

Estates were hardly popular outside a few travelling reps and caravaners and yet its an Ev problem that they focus on the section of the market most people actually want to buy, SUV type vehicles

I'm old enough to remember a time before SUVs were popular, and if you wanted a practical car an estate was the go to. Maybe I'm old fashioned, or maybe I just realise that the (relatively) long, low and more aerodynamic shape of an estate is more practical, more economical, and offers a better drive* than a tall, boxy SUV.

But we are talking about a comparison in parts. An engine is less than a battery , both to produce and replace

I'd hazard a guess that a battery is actually quicker (and therefore cheaper) to replace (in terms of labour) than an engine, as it's basically* just unplug, unbolt, remove, and then fit the new one, vs having to remove and refit all the ancillaries for an ICE.

Batteries also still have a value even when they no longer hold enough charge to be practical for a car, vs an engine which is basically worth its weight in scrap.






* obviously it's slightly more involved than that, but nowhere near the complexity of an engine.

 

[Sinbad2000]

The rear motors are bigger than anything ICE

say what now?

Have you seen the size of a tesla motor and gearbox?

As for the space in the model y, it's flipping cavernous. Don't forget, ICEs have a fuel tank where the boot COULD be as well...

 

[Yaayuh!]

Where is the perception that EVs have small boots come from?

Hybrids sure, but not full BEVs.

As @Haggisman said, because they do. ICE estates you're looking at 600L+ boot space, EVs you're looking at under 450L, generally.

Our Seat Leon Estate has a 620L boot and we do UK trips and holidays with a 2 year old, so it gets filled, properly. Moving to a EV will be quite the inconvenience even outside range/charging. Unless there's top boxes that don't effect the efficiency too much.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

say what now?

Have you seen the size of a tesla motor and gearbox?

As for the space in the model y, it's flipping cavernous. Don't forget, ICEs have a fuel tank where the boot COULD be as well...

How big do you think the rear drive unit in a RWD car is compared to the EDU... that's the point im making to suggest why the typical EV boot is a struggle.

I've never looked at an electric motor of course.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

As @Haggisman said, because they do. ICE estates you're looking at 600L+ boot space, EVs you're looking at under 450L, generally.

Our Seat Leon Estate has a 620L boot and we do UK trips and holidays with a 2 year old, so it gets filled, properly. Moving to a EV will be quite the inconvenience even outside range/charging. Unless there's top boxes that don't effect the efficiency too much.

Not sure its that extreme, my IPACE is 40mm longer and 577L - of course thats under the parcel shelf so max volume on those sort of trips isnt the same but thats more the tailgate angle than SUV/estate specifically.

 

[Kenai]

I can imagine cars that have been bodged into an EV from an ICE platform may suffer smaller boots but where there are more dedicated EV platform comparisons, I don't think they're too dissimilar?

i4 vs 4 Gran Coupe - both nominally 470L

Golf 8 vs id3 - 380L vs 385L

 

[Yaayuh!]

Not sure its that extreme, my IPACE is 40mm longer and 577L - of course thats under the parcel shelf so max volume on those sort of trips isnt the same but thats more the tailgate angle than SUV/estate specifically.

That's why I said "generally", there are exceptions, including the £70K options like the iPace.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Because they do?

Unless you're able/willing to spend north of £40k, the only options I'm aware of with a decent (e.g. > 400L) boot are limited to either the MG5/ZS, Kia Niro, or one of the hideous Rifter/eBerlingo/Vauxhall Combi type van/car monstrosities. Of those, only the MGs and Kia have what I would consider a reasonable range for a family car.

It is getting better though - there are a few new options coming to the market which have more space, but that's only really in the last year or 2.



I'm old enough to remember a time before SUVs were popular, and if you wanted a practical car an estate was the go to. Maybe I'm old fashioned, or maybe I just realise that the (relatively) long, low and more aerodynamic shape of an estate is more practical, more economical, and offers a better drive* than a tall, boxy SUV.

So it’s not really anything to do with the fact they are EVs and we are back to the the form factor of the cars being produced for a market wanting SUVs and not as my wife would say ‘old man cars’ which have limited market appeal these days. I’m sure more niche cars will come in time but given most manufacturers are concentrating on cars with a wider appeal, it’s not surprising they are ignoring estates.

Cheaper small cars have small boots and SUVs are not estates is basically your complaint.

 

[Haggisman]

How big do you think the rear drive unit in a RWD car is compared to the EDU... that's the point im making to suggest why the typical EV boot is a struggle.

I've never looked at an electric motor of course.

Where do you think the fuel tank goes?

Not sure its that extreme, my IPACE is 40mm longer and 577L - of course thats under the parcel shelf so max volume on those sort of trips isnt the same but thats more the tailgate angle than SUV/estate specifically.

But then as @Yaayuh! says, that's a £70k car. The Model S is 800L+ if you include the frunk, but again way outside of most people's budget.

I can get a Focus estate with a 575L boot for ~£27k or an Octavia with a 610L boot for ~£26k. Where are the equivalent EVs - even for £10-15k more?

Cheaper small cars have small boots and SUVs are not estates is basically your complaint.

No. If that was my complaint I would have said "Cheaper small cars have small boots and SUVs are not estates". What I said instead was "Need more EV estates", from which cryptic clue, most people would be able to infer that my complaint was that there aren't enough EV estates and we need more of them.

 

[Sinbad2000]

Where do you think the fuel tank goes?



But then as @Yaayuh! says, that's a £70k car. The Model S is 800L+ if you include the frunk, but again way outside of most people's budget.

I can get a Focus estate with a 575L boot for ~£27k or an Octavia with a 610L boot for ~£26k. Where's are the equivalent EVs - even for £10-15k more?

Model Y RWD = +-44k, >800L boot not counting the frunk. Not in your budget, I know. But not far off.