When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
Joined
14 Apr 2014
Posts
6,717
Location
Sunny Sussex
Get a long type 2 cable, problem solved, and you can get on a decent EV tariff.

I have lots of gangly mouth breathers around where I live though, and they'd definitely find it funny to just unplug the car overnight, as it wouldn't be on a drive and would pass over the pavement. Or if they can't unplug it, wreck the car :/

Were a fairly heavy use household and swapping to octopus Intelligent has been worth it. Day rate isn’t a huge amount above the cap, but if you can’t charge the car at night then it’s not worth bothering with an EV tbh.


I literally have nothing to shift to overnight usage though, and only do my commute twice a week. I built a spreadsheet to model it and found that I would just break even if I was charging twice a week - I likely wouldn't be.


My other half works from home you see, and I do 3x a week, so majority of usage is 9-5 with multiple monitors and PCs running.


I tried running the washing machine overnight but it was pretty noisy and disturbed my sleep too much.



I did the same thing for my mum when she got an EV. She decided to try the EV tariff but found she wasn't charging enough. Moved to tracker and her bills have dropped.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Posts
14,431
Ovo charge any time has no penalty on your day rate and it’s 7p/kwh.

The ‘downside’ is that they discount the energy going to your car rather than giving you all your energy at 7p/kwh. It’s great for people who would otherwise be impacted by the day rate penalty.

You plug in and tell them when you need it charged by and they charge it.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
28 Jan 2003
Posts
2,391
Location
Bristol
I literally have nothing to shift to overnight usage though, and only do my commute twice a week. I built a spreadsheet to model it and found that I would just break even if I was charging twice a week - I likely wouldn't be.

My other half works from home you see, and I do 3x a week, so majority of usage is 9-5 with multiple monitors and PCs running.

I tried running the washing machine overnight but it was pretty noisy and disturbed my sleep too much.

I did the same thing for my mum when she got an EV. She decided to try the EV tariff but found she wasn't charging enough. Moved to tracker and her bills have dropped.

I did the same with the spreadsheet and Octopus made no sense for me, at least up until this year when the day rate was and standing charge was actually cheaper than my main provider, so if you have not looked in a while you might find the rates from Octopus have improved enough to go for it regardless. When I last looked to use them it was like 40+ p in the day and I have 26p, now it is like 24p which undercuts my main and the gas is cheaper too, though not by a lot.

I too can't offset a lot but I can delay the washing machine enough that it wouldn't wake me, though it is in a utility extension which means it is pretty much out side the main house so hard to hear even with doors open.

Using intelligent it seems to like to give me a big window so 2300-8am, so if you get the same you could kick it off at 7.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
14 Apr 2014
Posts
6,717
Location
Sunny Sussex
I did the same with the spreadsheet and Octopus made no sense for me, at least up until this year at least when the day rate was and standing charge was actually cheaper than my main provider, so if you have not looked in a while you might find the rates from Octopus have improved enough to go for it regardless. When I last looked to use them it was like 40+ p in the day and I have 26p, now it is like 24p which undercuts my main and the gas is cheaper too, though not by a lot.

I too can't offset a lot but I can delay the washing machine enough that it wouldn't wake me, though it is in a utility extension which means it is pretty much out side the main house so hard to hear even with doors open.

Using intelligent it seems to like to give me a big window so 2300-8am, so if you get the same you could kick it off at 7.

If I'm wfh I'm not awake before 8 :p
 
Associate
Joined
28 Jan 2003
Posts
2,391
Location
Bristol
You said every. Not modern. Some dct ICE will sit on the limiter and don’t have augmented sound.

I don't actually know, I haven't driven one, Jason Cammisa said as much, generally decent praise from him as he is a fully paid up member of the save the manual brigade.

I will get a test drive though and find out for my self, I am not a DSG/auto fan though when I want to have fun and very much would rather a manual but in EV land manuals don't exist and this looks to be a decent compromise to add some interactive experience to the mudane point an squirt in silence of every EV.

I am of course assuming they let me drive it, I tried to drive a Kia GT and the Kia dealer wouldn't let me.....strange, they seem to think you can blow 60k without a test drive, more precious than Porsche or Lotus etc, who just let me have the keys and crack on.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
23 May 2006
Posts
6,945
Musk being Musk
i cant lie.. this news sucks. At a time where faith in EVs has already been tested, slowing down the tesla deployment of the charging network is terrible timing.
Esp in America where the entire network is being opened to other cars, i cant help but feel Tesla have just given up their main advantage over rivals, and at the same time the 1 thing which would mitigate it, more charging points, has been dialed back.

in the UK at least with only what..... 25%ish of charging stalls being open to other cars, tesla will likely keep their charging advantage.
 

nam

nam

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
2,681
Location
London
Had a tesla model 3 performance when it was launched unfortunately due to pandemic never got to use it enough and Tesla brought it back. Now coming to an end of 3yr with a Seat MII electric which was on a super low lease deal before the world went mad. Giving it back in June and will move onto a hybrid the new MG3+ with 197bhp . Should be fit for the next 4 years and then see what in the world is left and re-visit the EV options
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Posts
14,431
i cant lie.. this news sucks. At a time where faith in EVs has already been tested, slowing down the tesla deployment of the charging network is terrible timing.
Esp in America where the entire network is being opened to other cars, i cant help but feel Tesla have just given up their main advantage over rivals, and at the same time the 1 thing which would mitigate it, more charging points, has been dialed back.
It’s an utterly stupid and frankly bizarre decision.

The Tesla owners pages I’m on are going absolutely berserk about it at the moment.

in the UK at least with only what..... 25%ish of charging stalls being open to other cars, tesla will likely keep their charging advantage.
It’s almost half after last weeks openings. There are 60+ of 140ish now. The main holdouts are motorway service areas but most of the others are open to all now.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Posts
1,526
Location
Lancashire
if you can’t charge the car at night then it’s not worth bothering with an EV tbh.
I have one on order despite having no plans to charge it at home - it's free at work, I go there at least once a week generally. Almost all my charging will exclusively be done there and close to none of it done at home at night.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
26 Oct 2007
Posts
1,300
i cant lie.. this news sucks. At a time where faith in EVs has already been tested, slowing down the tesla deployment of the charging network is terrible timing.
Esp in America where the entire network is being opened to other cars, i cant help but feel Tesla have just given up their main advantage over rivals, and at the same time the 1 thing which would mitigate it, more charging points, has been dialed back.

in the UK at least with only what..... 25%ish of charging stalls being open to other cars, tesla will likely keep their charging advantage.
Not just Tesla.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2003
Posts
15,985
Location
Norwich
It’s an utterly stupid and frankly bizarre decision.
Is it though? Supercharger network was their USP and gave them a massive foothold initially.

They then opened this up to, IIRC, unlock further funding potential also giving themselves an additional revenue stream in the process.

Now if they continue to improve the network they are working to the benefit of not just themselves but all their competitors. 500 staff + land acquisition + infrastructure costs etc. so someone can go "Ooh, the charging situation is looking much better. Maybe I'll look into that *insert any other brand* again."

Just seems like business to me. All be it all in, people are just numbers on a spreadsheet, Musk style business.

Even that doesn't matter though. The guy could drop kick kittens for fun and people will still lap up the cars.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
1 Mar 2010
Posts
22,041
with higher power charging stations I'd have thought investment required must be escalating - you can't just suck the power off the grid, rather need significant battery storage on site.

Seem to be negligible details on what Musk discussed in China - if he's complaining about competing there against subsidised chinese companies, he's banging his head against the wall.
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Posts
14,431
with higher power charging stations I'd have thought investment required must be escalating - you can't just suck the power off the grid, rather need significant battery storage on site.
There are literally only a handful of charging hubs in the whole UK that are supported by batteries.

In most of the Gridserve electric forecourts, the batteries are not there because of the chargers, its there because of the grid huge connection and they use it for grid services (e.g. frequency balancing) and not powering chargers. It's part of the economic case for building these sites, the exception is Cornwall Services, that is used for buffering an insufficient power supply.

There is only 1 Tesla installation that has a battery currently and that is South Mimms but that's getting a power supply upgrade so will be redundant shortly.

Is it though? Supercharger network was their USP and gave them a massive foothold initially.

They then opened this up to, IIRC, unlock further funding potential also giving themselves an additional revenue stream in the process.

Now if they continue to improve the network they are working to the benefit of not just themselves but all their competitors. 500 staff + land acquisition + infrastructure costs etc. so someone can go "Ooh, the charging situation is looking much better. Maybe I'll look into that *insert any other brand* again."

It's a big 'if' though. How do you improve the network if you have just fired the 'entire' team? (I'm sure it is not actually all of them)

While the Tesla network is good, its not in any stretch of the imagination 'finished' in terms of the number of locations. It is keeping pace with demand but only because they keep adding locations to diversify people away from the really busy ones which can't expand. A huge number of the sites are at hotels and other leisure/retail locations which are only going to want so many chargers on their estate.

The reason I say its a stupid decision is they have basically convinced America that their proprietary standard is the best and their chargers are the only ones worth using. They have a huge opportunity to take a stonking % of the charging market.

In the UK, they seem to be the only charging company that is able to deploy reliable chargers at scale for a reasonable price. Again, a huge opportunity to lock up a significant % of the market. In Europe, not so much and the landscape is more competitive over there but that is why they are nearly all open.

Just seems like business to me. All be it all in, people are just numbers on a spreadsheet, Musk style business.

Even that doesn't matter though. The guy could drop kick kittens for fun and people will still lap up the cars.

I don't disagree on that front, that's the American corporate way and its a ploy to pump the share price which is crashing hard at the moment. I guess the fortunate thing for their European employee's, they can't just be laid off like they can in America. I expect many of them will be re-hired within months when they realise they are actually needed.

I wouldn't go that far though, even some of the Tesla die hards are starting to get pretty vocal about Musk. His antics and political statements have certainly rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way and it is 100% putting off customers and costing them sales.

The company isn't a start up anymore and it could do with some adult leadership and I wouldn't be surprised if he is ousted at some point if he keeps up the current direction of travel. Looking beyond Musk, the product itself is actually decent and sold for a competitive price.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,368
Location
Here
There’s loads of the VW ghea chargers with batteries inside at forecourts etc where they buffer to allow faster charging than the grid would otherwise supply. Eg Bp fuel station at newton abbot
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2003
Posts
15,985
Location
Norwich
It's a big 'if' though. How do you improve the network if you have just fired the 'entire' team? (I'm sure it is not actually all of them)

While the Tesla network is good, its not in any stretch of the imagination 'finished' in terms of the number of locations. It is keeping pace with demand but only because they keep adding locations to diversify people away from the really busy ones which can't expand. A huge number of the sites are at hotels and other leisure/retail locations which are only going to want so many chargers on their estate.
That's my point though, why bother keeping on improving the network when it has done it's job? The business model of providing the product (the car) and the solution to the barrier to adoption (the supercharger network) was incredibly effective. Tesla took a massive foothold because of this and had the market pretty much to themselves for a while.

Any further investment at this point doesn't benefit them in isolation, it benefits their competitors.

Playing devil's advocate on the requirement for chargers... "Yeah that sounds like an ongoing issue if you want to continue with EV adoption. Well, we've done our bit." *Musk smirk*
The reason I say its a stupid decision is they have basically convinced America that their proprietary standard is the best and their chargers are the only ones worth using. They have a huge opportunity to take a stonking % of the charging market.
Sounds like the perfect bait and switch to improve the charging network for your customers at other people's expense.

I don't think they have or had any intention on being a charging provider. That was just a means to an end.
The company isn't a start up anymore and it could do with some adult leadership and I wouldn't be surprised if he is ousted at some point if he keeps up the current direction of travel. Looking beyond Musk, the product itself is actually decent and sold for a competitive price.
They seem to be doing ok though. I don't like the guy or the way he does business but I do know his name. I couldn't name another head of an auto manufacturer. No such thing as bad press?
 
Back
Top Bottom