When is the pricing bubble going to burst?

[b0rn2sk8]

I'm trying to work out why this is and must be missing something obvious...? Around town I would have thought the continued stop-start nature of more acceleration would equal out to power used on a higher motorway speed, if not be worse?

EDIT: Is it essentially because they don't have gears as such? So higher cruising speed equals higher revs and more power usage?

No, its because air resistances squares with speed.

The same applies to an ICE car but you don't notice it as much because they are not at their most efficient unless you have them in their final drive gear. So in reality you'll be doing 50mph before you get into your most efficient mode where as the EV will be in its most efficient mode as soon as its rolling as they tend to be fixed gear.

Even then, I'd expect more than 90 miles at 85mph from a Mach-e, even the smaller battery one. I suppose the issue is that when you are traveling at that speed its rarely for very long so if you are planting the go pedal after having to slow for traffic constantly then yes your range will drop dramatically as it would in an ICE.

 

[Holst1981]

I'm trying to work out why this is and must be missing something obvious...? Around town I would have thought the continued stop-start nature of more acceleration would equal out to power used on a higher motorway speed, if not be worse?

EDIT: Is it essentially because they don't have gears as such? So higher cruising speed equals higher revs and more power usage?

In town you can regenerate some of the energy lost when braking.

Higher speeds on the motorway means you lose efficency due to drag. The faster you go the more effect drag has. Go twice as fast use 4 times as much energy moving the air out of the way,

 

[Scythe]

No, its because air resistances squares with speed.

The same applies to an ICE car but you don't notice it as much because they are not at their most efficient unless you have them in their final drive gear. So in reality you'll be doing 50mph before you get into your most efficient mode where as the EV will be in its most efficient mode as soon as its rolling as they tend to be fixed gear.

Even then, I'd expect more than 90 miles at 85mph from a Mach-e, even the smaller battery one. I suppose the issue is that when you are traveling at that speed its rarely for very long so if you are planting the go pedal after having to slow for traffic constantly then yes your range will drop dramatically as it would in an ICE.

The aerodynamic drag squares with speed, yes. However when applied to a propelled object (i.e. a vehicle), the power you need to overcome the aerodynamic drag increases by a factor of 3 (cubed) with speed. Hence a lot more power is needed to overcome the drag at higher speeds.

 

[Gibbo]

No, its because air resistances squares with speed.

The same applies to an ICE car but you don't notice it as much because they are not at their most efficient unless you have them in their final drive gear. So in reality you'll be doing 50mph before you get into your most efficient mode where as the EV will be in its most efficient mode as soon as its rolling as they tend to be fixed gear.

Even then, I'd expect more than 90 miles at 85mph from a Mach-e, even the smaller battery one. I suppose the issue is that when you are traveling at that speed its rarely for very long so if you are planting the go pedal after having to slow for traffic constantly then yes your range will drop dramatically as it would in an ICE.

Guess me and my mates must be reckless motorway drivers as I generally set the cruise control around 85mph, especially if I am doing a long distance trip. Depending on the car because of like you say gearing I aim for anywhere between 77-85mph depending on what car I am in and just slow to the limit for camera sections. When your doing a 200+ mile trip travelling an extra 15mph if possible can sometimes nearly save you 40-50 minutes from the journey.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

That estimate sounds like that, just an estimate. At 90ish cruising occasionally triples i had a good run back from Reading ~2miles/kWh. If he's driving fast on cold and the battery in warming phase it will make a longer journey prediction look a lot worse than it really would be.

I'm trying to work out why this is and must be missing something obvious...? Around town I would have thought the continued stop-start nature of more acceleration would equal out to power used on a higher motorway speed, if not be worse?

EDIT: Is it essentially because they don't have gears as such? So higher cruising speed equals higher revs and more power usage?

Its bi directional power aswell, so a lot of energy goes back into the battery around town rather than heating brake discs.

 

[Journey]

Guess me and my mates must be reckless motorway drivers as I generally set the cruise control around 85mph, especially if I am doing a long distance trip. Depending on the car because of like you say gearing I aim for anywhere between 77-85mph depending on what car I am in and just slow to the limit for camera sections. When your doing a 200+ mile trip travelling an extra 15mph if possible can sometimes nearly save you 40-50 minutes from the journey.

I find it odd that you thin it is ok to regularly break the law, so I would say it is 'reckless' as you put it. I know a lot of people think the speed limit shouldn't apply, or it is too slow, but at the end of the day it is a law, and the 'I'm not hurting anyone by going faster' brigade are the sort of people I'd associate with ignoring Covid restrictions, or just having a couple of pints then driving is fine as well.

I guess the sooner they bring in full GPS speed tracking on cars the better, or a true system that stops you breaking the speed limit.

Oh, do you also do 30mph in a 20mph School zone?

 

[dlockers]

Much safer to do 85 then do 70>60>50>70>50>60 as ***** pull in and out of the middle lane and slam the anchors on randomly.

 

[EddScott]

I paid £16K for my Impreza Spec C Type RA April 2020. I've put about £10K into it and could probably put it up for £30K without lots of laughing faces on BookFace.

In contrast I paid £30K for my Evo 9GT in March 2021 (Horribly overpriced and a bit of a mistake but I've almost forgiven myself ) Will have put another £20K into it by the end of the year so I'll probably need to be buired in it before I see any postive equity Yes, I know, look at what you could have won with £50K

I have a half baked plan that in 10 years time, at retirement, I'll sell both and get something a bit special to enjoy my latter years. The value of ICE cars in 10 years time is a question I do worry about (a bit)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Guess me and my mates must be reckless motorway drivers as I generally set the cruise control around 85mph, especially if I am doing a long distance trip. Depending on the car because of like you say gearing I aim for anywhere between 77-85mph depending on what car I am in and just slow to the limit for camera sections. When your doing a 200+ mile trip travelling an extra 15mph if possible can sometimes nearly save you 40-50 minutes from the journey.

I didn’t suggest it’s was reckless, I was more just making the general point that it’s not really possible to cruise at 85mph in the U.K. unless it’s the middle of the night due to the weight of traffic.

In reality you are constantly slowing down for slower traffic and it’s every easy to empty the battery on a big EV by constantly mashing the go pedal to get back up to that speed again.

Even at 70, I find it’s vary rare that I’d go more than a couple of miles without having to slow down for something, particularly as the speedo in my car is bang on 70 where as most over read. At 85, you’d also have to be slowing constantly for people like me

That’s no different to an ICE, other than how big your tank is to begin with. Varying the speed constantly will drop the efficiency. How much ultimately depends on how much brake and acceleration your giving it.

 

[Chris1712]

I didn’t suggest it’s was reckless, I was more just making the general point that it’s not really possible to cruise at 85mph in the U.K. unless it’s the middle of the night due to the weight of traffic.

In reality you are constantly slowing down for slower traffic and it’s every easy to empty the battery on a big EV by constantly mashing the go pedal to get back up to that speed again.

Even at 70, I find it’s vary rare that I’d go more than a couple of miles without having to slow down for something, particularly as the speedo in my car is bang on 70 where as most over read. At 85, you’d also have to be slowing constantly for people like me

That’s no different to an ICE, other than how big your tank is to begin with. Varying the speed constantly will drop the efficiency. How much ultimately depends on how much brake and acceleration your giving it.

Depends where you are, the M4 and M25 (when quiet) is bonkers fast a lot of the time. M4 between Bristol and Reading you can be doing 85-90 on a cruise and still getting overtaken constantly, for real. Dunno what it is but it's the fastest stretch of motorway ime.

 

[Gibbo]

I find it odd that you thin it is ok to regularly break the law, so I would say it is 'reckless' as you put it. I know a lot of people think the speed limit shouldn't apply, or it is too slow, but at the end of the day it is a law, and the 'I'm not hurting anyone by going faster' brigade are the sort of people I'd associate with ignoring Covid restrictions, or just having a couple of pints then driving is fine as well.

I guess the sooner they bring in full GPS speed tracking on cars the better, or a true system that stops you breaking the speed limit.

Oh, do you also do 30mph in a 20mph School zone?

I will carry on driving at 80-85 if I wish, I get caught, my problem, I pay the fine and take the points.
No 20 zones around me, however if I see a 20 zone, I do 20, just like in 30 zones I stick to 30. If traffic allows or a motorway is quiet then yes I will drive over the speed limit, it is my choice.

I never drink and drive, not even half a pint!

I didn’t suggest it’s was reckless, I was more just making the general point that it’s not really possible to cruise at 85mph in the U.K. unless it’s the middle of the night due to the weight of traffic.

In reality you are constantly slowing down for slower traffic and it’s every easy to empty the battery on a big EV by constantly mashing the go pedal to get back up to that speed again.

Even at 70, I find it’s vary rare that I’d go more than a couple of miles without having to slow down for something, particularly as the speedo in my car is bang on 70 where as most over read. At 85, you’d also have to be slowing constantly for people like me

That’s no different to an ICE, other than how big your tank is to begin with. Varying the speed constantly will drop the efficiency. How much ultimately depends on how much brake and acceleration your giving it.

Like I say if the motorway is busy I just go with the flow of he traffic, if its quiet I go faster, basically when road conditions allow, so yeah I might be breaking the speed limit and breaking the law, but it is my choice and if I can knock 30-60 minutes of my journey time safely then I will do so.

 

[chanjy]

I regularly set my cruise to 75. Suppose that's reckless too

 

[Journey]

I regularly set my cruise to 75. Suppose that's reckless too

I set mine to 75 as well which is GPS 69/70mph.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

My view is probably tainted by the fact you just aren’t going anywhere fast along the A14, M11, A11 or A12, during the day. It’s just far too busy and these are the only real routes out of East Anglia to the rest of the world.

 

[chanjy]

I set mine to 75 as well which is GPS 69/70mph.

Differs by car though. At 75 indicated on mine GPS tells me I'm going 73-74 so it's not under-reading by much.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I can pretty often cruise 90mph on my commute if I was that way inclined, not all of us live in the South East.

Depends where you are, the M4 and M25 (when quiet) is bonkers fast a lot of the time. M4 between Bristol and Reading you can be doing 85-90 on a cruise and still getting overtaken constantly, for real. Dunno what it is but it's the fastest stretch of motorway ime.

Its that or the M40!

 

[Antipasti]

I reckon the M40 is by far the 'fastest' motorway I use. 100mph is treated like 70mph!

 

[Antipasti]

I can pretty often cruise 90mph on my commute if I was that way inclined, not all of us live in the South East.



Its that or the M40!

Beat me to it!

 

[HangTime]

When your doing a 200+ mile trip travelling an extra 15mph if possible can sometimes nearly save you 40-50 minutes from the journey.

It's more like 300+ miles to save 40+ mins at 85mph. In terms of time saving you get diminishing returns from the extra 15mph the faster you go (i.e. 85 vs 70 mph will save you a lot less time than 70 vs 55 mph).

Back loosely on topic, I remember writing a year or two back that I think 79 plate ICE cars could be a good buy because they will be the absolute latest you could buy, and hence will become rarer and rarer over time, also be the only ICE cars still in warranty after a few years. It's kind of like the current situation where supply of new cars is drastically reduced so 2 year old cars built before the supply shortages are holding their value longer than normal, in some cases going up in value because you simply can't buy a newer one without a long wait. So by say 2040 if someone wants an ICE car many of the older ones will be scrapped, supply will be very tight and you are sitting pretty with your spring chicken car at only 10 years old naming your price. That said, who knows what legislation will be in place by then, might be big tax disincentives, fuel might be really expensive, repair costs might start to soar due to big reduction in parts manufacturing etc.

 

[Gibbo]

It's more like 300+ miles to save 40+ mins at 85mph. In terms of time saving you get diminishing returns from the extra 15mph the faster you go (i.e. 85 vs 70 mph will save you a lot less time than 70 vs 55 mph).

Back loosely on topic, I remember writing a year or two back that I think 79 plate ICE cars could be a good buy because they will be the absolute latest you could buy, and hence will become rarer and rarer over time, also be the only ICE cars still in warranty after a few years. It's kind of like the current situation where supply of new cars is drastically reduced so 2 year old cars built before the supply shortages are holding their value longer than normal, in some cases going up in value because you simply can't buy a newer one without a long wait. So by say 2040 if someone wants an ICE car many of the older ones will be scrapped, supply will be very tight and you are sitting pretty with your spring chicken car at only 10 years old naming your price. That said, who knows what legislation will be in place by then, might be big tax disincentives, fuel might be really expensive, repair costs might start to soar due to big reduction in parts manufacturing etc.

The problem is many others will be thinking the same including the dealerships themselves putting in larger than normal orders to sit on stock for a bit potentially, then factor in all the scalpers trying to buy and its fair to say that in the last year or two maybe probably gonna be new car ordering mayhem as scalpers and every man and his dog is buying either for genuine reasons or to try and turn a quick buck.