when is "used" used?

[jas72]

Bought a dvd recorder for the inlaws (they are in their 80s) from a well known chain who offer a nice 30 day return offer.

Well the dvd recorder was pants so I repacked it and took it to the store.

However on the back of the receipt it says the product has to be unused?

So I had a 40 minute arguement about what "used" means.

For me if you open a product to test that doesn't mean you used the product it means you tested it and didn't like it.

He said and I quote "since the batteries have been taken out and used the it's a used product and he can't resell it."

I said he can he just marks it down and it's part of their offer that some customers won't like what they bought.

Anyway he didn't budge and I now have a product that is not suitable.



The thing was only 200 quid and I'm sure they could easily have sold it for 180 as an opened product. So his ranting about loosing 200 quid was total nonsense not like they would have put it in the bin

Pity I only had 2 days left of my holiday with the inlaws so can't really follow up but I'm mad is there anything else I can do from here?

So consumer experts what classifies used?

PS for information the women before she got the manager said in future if I want to try the product just don't use the batteries that come with it and they won't know any different.

 

[Greenlizard0]

Isn't there a 7 day no questions asked period? Or is that only for internet products?

Edit - just seen you're in Belgium, hmm..

 

[jas72]

that's only for distance selling. Which is a good reason to buy over 't net now.

 

[jas72]

Isn't there a 7 day no questions asked period? Or is that only for internet products?

Edit - just seen you're in Belgium, hmm..

Aye but my inlaws are in the UK which makes it difficult for me to help them from here. But was thinking of a phone number of course the longer it takes the less chance their is do to anything about it.

 

[JIM_BOB7813]

Should have just used some other batteries and he'd never have known

 

[Burnsy2023]

They have no obligation to give you a refund at all.

 

[Muffin`]

They have no obligation to give you a refund at all.

^

Used = using the product, even for a second. I guess it was Argos which don't have a sales system that can allow for second hand goods to be sold.

 

[osc89er]

I thought Argos had a no-quibble refund policy, or was that changed/modified some time ago?

 

[jas72]

they do so long as you don't use the product.

Another annoyance is that unless the signal from your aerial is perfect the machine shows a black screen and since my inlaws don't get a great picture the screen stays black for them for certain channels. The product clearly isn't suitable for them but there was no way to know that beforehand.


Oh and most argos I've been in have a clearance basket in the shop.

 

[JBuk]

Even though you have only tested it you have still used it, some stores may let you return an item within a period of time but this in not a legal requirement and the fact you have opened and used a consumable means they could no longer sell that items as new

I can't be certain but do return policies not have stipulations in the small print such as "return the item unopened and unused"?

 

[No1newts]

I studied law but im not too sure about the "use" of the product issue but that should not really matter. Under British consumer law (forgot the act) you are entitled to a refund, not a replacement, not a credit note a REFUND if the product is not the right one for you.

PS. If you really want I can try and dig out the statute from my old law books im off work today

 

[JBuk]

I studied law but im not too sure about the "use" of the product issue but that should not really matter. Under British consumer law (forgot the act) you are entitled to a refund, not a replacement, not a credit note a REFUND if the product is not the right one for you.

PS. If you really want I can try and dig out the statute from my old law books im off work today

You're not enetitled to jack **** if you have bought something from a store then decided you don't like it unless the store has it's own volutnary returns policy which probably stipulates the product is not to be used,etc.

 

[No1newts]

You're not enetitled to jack **** if you have bought something from a store then decided you don't like it unless the store has it's own volutnary returns policy which probably stipulates the product is not to be used,etc.

DO you have anything to back this up or you just believing what the shops tell you? I think it will be the second, everyone believes they have no rights when it comes to shops and refunds etc they play off your ignorance.

One of the first things I was taught when studying contractual law.

 

[[TW]Fox]

One of the first things I was taught when studying contractual law.

Did you spend all your classes flicking rubber bands at the wall? Because if a product which has been sold is:

a) Fit for purpose
b) Not defective in any way
c) Exactly as advertised

Then there is zero legal obligation on the store to accept a return.

 

[Muffin`]

DO you have anything to back this up or you just believing what the shops tell you? I think it will be the second, everyone believes they have no rights when it comes to shops and refunds etc they play off your ignorance.

One of the first things I was taught when studying contractual law.

Why are you now a PM? Surley law offers a much better career prospect?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why are you now a PM?

Because he failed the contractual law module?

 

[jas72]

Did you spend all your classes flicking rubber bands at the wall? Because if a product which has been sold is:

a) Fit for purpose
b) Not defective in any way
c) Exactly as advertised

Then there is zero legal obligation on the store to accept a return.

This is correct unless they have a returns policy in that case we can argue about what classifies a prodcut as used.

However that aside there is also the issue of the dvd player which is in my opinion too loud. The store manager took it upstairs for a while and came down and said he had to have his ear next to it to hear it which is complete baloney as I could hear it from across my living room (3 meters away).

I thought perhaps it was due to my cabinet amplifying the noise but it clearly isn't also the thing vibrates when a disk is played which isn't normal at all.

I've phoned my brother in law and told him to pack it up and ask the shop to send it for repair if it comes back with the same noise I will demand a refund as the machine has an unacceptable noise level when playing DVDs and is not fit for purpose.

 

[No1newts]

Did you spend all your classes flicking rubber bands at the wall? Because if a product which has been sold is:

a) Fit for purpose
b) Not defective in any way
c) Exactly as advertised

Then there is zero legal obligation on the store to accept a return.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended

When you buy goods you form a contract between the buyer and the seller which is legally binding and is covered by a law called the Sale of Goods Act 1979. If you have purchased goods, from a trader, that have become faulty or were not as described when you purchased them or are not fit for the purpose for which you bought them read our information below and know your consumer rights.

Your Rights

If you have bought goods you have a right to expect that they should be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality:

* ‘As described’ means that it should correspond to any description given about the goods such as the quantity, colour, measurements etc. These descriptions may be verbal statements about the goods, statements in the brochure, on a shelf edge or even on the box.
* Goods are of ‘Satisfactory quality’ if they reach the standard a reasonable person would expect taking into account the price and any description.
- The law says that goods that are of satisfactory quality are free from minor defects, have good appearance and finish and are durable, safe and fit for all the purposes for which such goods are commonly supplied.
* In addition to being fit for their every day purpose goods should be fit for any specific purpose you agreed with the seller at the time of sale [for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that was compatible with your computer]

If your goods are not satisfactory you may be able to make a claim for up to 6 years in England and Wales and 5 years in Scotland after the purchase of your goods, for a refund, repair or replacement.

You do not have a right to a refund under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 if you have simply changed your mind about a purchase or decided that you do not like it. However, other consumer legislation such as the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 provides other cancellation rights see our buying at home section for further advice.
Claiming a refund

I said I was unsure of the use issue, but as stated above you are entitled to a refund if the goods are;

that have become faulty or were not as described when you purchased them or are not fit for the purpose for which you bought them.

In this case the goods that the above guy has purchased are not fit for the purpose as they do not seem to be compatible with his TV. Of course as with pretty much all forms of English law it is open to interpretation but it could be easily argued that the goods are not fit for purpose in these circumstances.

Many people will now probably point out;

You do not have a right to a refund under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 if you have simply changed your mind about a purchase or decided that you do not like it

But it does not sound that he has said "meh I prefer the colour of that one! I want that one" he is returning it because it is not compatible with his TV set.

Why are you now a PM? Surley law offers a much better career prospect?

Not particularly, I have friends who qualified the same time as me and have just now fully qualified (year LPC, 2 years as apprentice in a firm) earn pennies while finishing training and starting on between 24k is the lowest 31k is the highest. I have been a PM since I qualified starting on 27k and now on 33k with more prospects for promotion and pay rise in the coming years.

Also I was only really interested in criminal law, the rest bored me, but the idea of taking a job in criminal law where the majority of jobs are CPS and being given a case to protect a known murderer. Well I could not in good mind stand up and defend someone like this so I chose not to go into law.

 

[No1newts]

This is correct unless they have a returns policy in that case we can argue about what classifies a prodcut as used.

However that aside there is also the issue of the dvd player which is in my opinion too loud. The store manager took it upstairs for a while and came down and said he had to have his ear next to it to hear it which is complete baloney as I could hear it from across my living room (3 meters away).

I thought perhaps it was due to my cabinet amplifying the noise but it clearly isn't also the thing vibrates when a disk is played which isn't normal at all.

I've phoned my brother in law and told him to pack it up and ask the shop to send it for repair if it comes back with the same noise I will demand a refund as the machine has an unacceptable noise level when playing DVDs and is not fit for purpose.

Give me some time to do some further reading, I'm sure that all returns poicies etc are illegal, or if not illegal then certainly non applicable in British law. The law is the law as stated The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and not what some random store puts on a piece of paper in the window.

 

[[TW]Fox]

In this case the goods that the above guy has purchased are not fit for the purpose as they do not seem to be compatible with his TV. Of course as with pretty much all forms of English law it is open to interpretation but it could be easily argued that the goods are not fit for purpose in these circumstances.

No, it cannot. I cannot go out and buy a tennis ball and then get a refund because it's not suitable for use as a football. If a member of staff had recommended the tennis ball as suitable for my needs, thats a different story. But if the customer has themselves chosen a product believing it to be suitable for their needs but later finds it is not then it is entirely their problem if the product was correctly advertised.

Why should the retailer bear the cost of the consumers mistake and lack of homework?

Is it acceptable for me to walk into OcUK's shop, spend £400 on a GeForce GTX295, get it home, open it, plug it in and then realise it wont fit my PC? What would OcUK do with the product? I doubt you'd want to pay £400 for it after I've had it, you'd want a sealed one instead. It would be entirely my mistake, not covered under the SOGA, and tough luck.