where does all the electricity go

[Sasahara]

There's not much info on that page of what the figures actually are but I think it's energy released per kilo of fuel burned? - so doesn't take into account the transportation costs of those fuels.

The gas itself doesnt get lost through friction but extra energy has to be used to overcome the friction . Gas has weight and therefor it costs energy to move it, that energy has to come from somewhere.

It tells you how much energy is in each fuel per kilo, so can you work out that when transporting it in a conventional method, tanker, or rail which is likely to be cheaper.

Gas is transported in a pressure network, making it very efficient to transport. Most of it comes directly from source. Friction is not going to a be a factor in costs it would be so low, gas has extremely low friction. Most of any extra energy required to move the gas would be due to the weight of the gas not friction. For LNG the act of expanding it creates the pressure required for the network.

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-so...gys-grand-journey/where-does-uk-gas-come-from

Do you think friction is involved with electricity transportation as well?
With electric there is n average lost of energy of 7.7% to get it to your home. (That after the generation loss with is bigger than that.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)#Losses

 

[Sasahara]

Read it again, I was saying that heating via electricity using air conditioning is cheaper than heating using gas (just ridiculously expensive to install unless a new build). The separate comment about houses with warm air systems being cheaper to convert to AC due to the compatibility with ducted systems was just a footnote.

So you think electricity produced heat through an air con system would be cheaper to run that a conventional GSH system?

 

[Caged]

Maybe not cheaper, but in terms of heat output vs. energy consumed they are more efficient.

 

[v0n]

So you think electricity produced heat through an air con system would be cheaper to run that a conventional GSH system?

It is - in terms of running - that goes for most modern heat exchanger systems - ground source heat pumps and air source heat pumps. It's the initial cost and installation that kills the savings.

 

[Caged]

Yeah but in the summer you have a sweet AC setup. Win.

 

[Sasahara]

It is - in terms of running - that goes for most modern heat exchanger systems - ground source heat pumps and air source heat pumps. It's the initial cost and installation that kills the savings.

He didn't mention the use of a ground source heat pump and these are not exclusive to air con. Most use of these setups would still use radiators.

But as you say the cost is prohibitive and not necessarily cheaper than gas since to heat a home. In the winter it would need to be on pretty constantly and the house would need to be very well insulated.
Cheaper then other electric methods. Electricity has already lost at around 40% of the original energy by the time it's reached your house, so there's a lot to make up.
Even the Energy Saving Trust doesn't recommend them if you have mains gas.

They are very good for people that live out in the sticks. Some are used in combination with a LPG(not mains)/oil heated option when more heat is required.

 

[ubersonic]

So you think electricity produced heat through an air con system would be cheaper to run that a conventional GSH system?

Yes, that's one of the big advantages/selling points of AC. The downside being the installation cost on a non-new build.

It is - in terms of running - that goes for most modern heat exchanger systems - ground source heat pumps and air source heat pumps. It's the initial cost and installation that kills the savings.

Indeed.

Although having said that, adding AC to a home built without it is probably cheaper (accounting for inflation) than adding central heating to one would have been.

 

[touch]

It tells you how much energy is in each fuel per kilo, so can you work out that when transporting it in a conventional method, tanker, or rail which is likely to be cheaper.

You cant work out the transport cost from the weight unless you know all the other details about the transport (distance, vehicle efficiency, etc).

Do you think friction is involved with electricity transportation as well?

I wouldn't call it "friction" but, yes, there are losses in the transportation of electricity too.

Again, I'm not saying that one type of fuel is more efficient than another. I'm saying that you can't compare the efficiency of different fuels from source.

(But as end users, we can work out the cost-efficiency of different fuels we use)