Where is the breaking point for you?
- Thread starter Ayahuasca
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2009
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- 10,006
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- Billericay, UK
I wouldn't give to much credence to people who paint this type of picture. The NHS going fully private would be political suicide for any government who tried this and given were likely to have a Labour government at the end of next year that idea seems even more fantastical.
I've never felt strongly enough about any political topic that it makes me want to go out and protest besides the Ukraine war where I've joined protestors outside the Russian embassy (my other half is Ukrainian so it's personal to me). Politically I see myself as conservative and a libertarian but I'm not evangelical about it. I get annoyed when I feel like my freedom is being eroded but there's no mainstream political party out there that wants to defend or region back on laws that limit our opinions and speech.
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Nope, Australia has a mixed public/private system.
We can look at for example cancer survival rates:
Cancer Survival Rates by Country 2023 - Wisevoter
Cancer survival rates have increased drastically and significantly in recent years due to advances in medical technology. Improvements in early detection, treatments, and access to care are some of the primary forces driving the trend of increasing cancer survivorship. The five-year relative...
wisevoter.com
Top 3 countries, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand.
In Ireland, you have to pay for GP appointments and for A&E visits if not refereed by a GP. We'd soon clear away a bunch of time wasters if we charged a small fee for GP visits here too.
It isn't that simple - they've had a strong public system with varying between similar to the NHS though a different approach to higher levels of privatisation over the years but in recent years there has been increased privatisation, gradually moving closer to a US style system, with a corresponding drop in quality metrics.
New Zealand has a heavily public subsidised system not unlike the NHS.
Fact is the higher end of the healthcare index is dominated by countries with some type of universal/public healthcare system often heavily regulated to prevent private industries taking advantage.
Yep in sweden its 250kr to see a GP.Nope, Australia has a mixed public/private system.
We can look at for example cancer survival rates:
Cancer Survival Rates by Country 2023 - Wisevoter
Cancer survival rates have increased drastically and significantly in recent years due to advances in medical technology. Improvements in early detection, treatments, and access to care are some of the primary forces driving the trend of increasing cancer survivorship. The five-year relative...
Top 3 countries, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand.
In Ireland, you have to pay for GP appointments and for A&E visits if not refereed by a GP. We'd soon clear away a bunch of time wasters if we charged a small fee for GP visits here too.
When did they have an NHS? Which years are you claiming here, can you be specific?
AFAIK they've never had an NHS system and have always had a mixed-use system with some public hospitals funded by local/state government and Medicare introduced in the 80s.
They never had an NHS but they're healthcare system has been underpinned by a strong public system which at various points in their history was closer to an NHS like system than not - in recent years the strength of the public part of the system has been gradually eroded resulting in increases in wait times and reduction in outcomes, etc. with accusations it is turning into something more like the US.
You've said that a few times now but it's not true, you can't even tell me when that was. Having some public hospitals funded at a state level != an NHS.
We could have a mixture of public and private hospitals too, some charges for GP visits as per Australia. A public Medicare insurance system and employer health insurance. I doubt anyone here would say it was an NHS like system though, attempts to introduce it would be met with lots of howling about the sacred cow NHS being destroyed.
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It isn't a case of when it was - the evolution of their healthcare system is far more complex than that and beyond the scope of a post here.
Roff, they've never had an NHS or an "NHS like system" whatever that is supposed to mean, they've got a mixed-use system, you're just making things up.
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The quality of their healthcare system is off the back of their healthcare system being underpinned by a strong public system, sure not a direct copy of the NHS but much more like an NHS type system than that seen in the likes of the US, etc. and has only suffered since the erosion of that public side of the system.
You might not want to accept it or try twisting around definitions but that is the truth.
Might not accept that it's not like the US? No one said it was like the US:
I'm literally presenting it as a good system that's not like the US FFS!
The point was that a public/private system such as that used in Australia can work rather well. All you've done in reply to that is to make some vague comments trying to act like they have an NHS type system there but when asked to clarify you can't even tell me what years you're referring to, AFAIK they've never had an NHS or NHS like system and you're just wrong on that point. They have a mix of public and private hospitals, the public ones are funded by local states and they have a medicare insurance system. So not like the NHS!
Might not accept that it's not like the US? No one said it was like the US:
I'm literally presenting it as a good system that's not like the US FFS!
The point was that a public/private system such as that used in Australia can work rather well. All you've done in reply to that is to make some vague comments trying to act like they have an NHS type system there but when asked to clarify you can't even tell me what years you're referring to, AFAIK they've never had an NHS or NHS like system and you're just wrong on that point. They have a mix of public and private hospitals, the public ones are funded by local states and they have a medicare insurance system. So not like the NHS!
So now you are twisting what I said... typical... pull your head out your arse.
Feel free to clarify then - what time period are you referring to when Australia had an NHS-like system and what made it NHS-like?