Wheres my pension gone?

dirtydog said:
Day trading is gambling, to all intents and purposes. Indeed some people who trade in futures use spread betting firms to do so. Most people who tried this (in the US it was popular for a while, during the dotcom bubble) lost money.

We're all entitled to our opinions. You may consider me a consistently successful gambler then. I won't go into numbers as that would be vulgar, but my average day parked in front of the computer during market hours has paid me more, pro-rata, than the national average salary. I have had, to date, 59 such trading days since 5th December 2005 (work and other commitments have precluded me doing it every possible day).

dirtydog said:
You presumably think that you have some special knowledge that all of the many highly-paid fund managers whose funds fail to match the index performance, do not have :)

I have two HUGE edges on them. One is that I'd be playing with my own money. The other is rules for exit. Look how long they stay in each company in their portfolio. I'd set a small target. Bang, it's hit! Move on. They're not fluid enough. They set too big a target for too small a timeframe. I'd be happy to take just 5% profit a few days or weeks into the trade, re-invest and move on. If one does that just ten times per slot, per year, in a constantly evolving portfolio of ten stocks, one makes 50% overall in that year...

The point not being taken advantage of is that each stock has its ups and downs throughout the course of the year. I'd make money from volatility. Buying into a stock then waiting as it has several ups and downs is silly. Watch it like a hawk, and take advantage of each climb. Watch all stocks like a hawk, and when you've made your little 5% on one, ditch it for the next one that's about to climb. Mix that with a higher percentage target strategy on special situations*, like the ones I mention below, and it won't take long at all to make lots of loot.

They're staid in their approach, just backing the obvious companies. They place too much emphasis on market capitalisation as a safety net. Most basic diversified funds have their largest holding in BP., because it is has the largest capitalisation. But the problem is, when they go in at the wrong time, it will take years and years to have made enough profit for them to be able to say 'well we could have chosen our entry point a bit better, but in the long run we achieved what we set out to do'...and when they go in at the right time, they stay in too long, when they should taken profit!

I also think I have more imagination, and more balls, than the average fund manager. I make that assessment based on all the studying I've done of how funds are managed, how the portfolios are made up & alter over time, as well on the performance of my short to mid-term ISA trading account. Highlights in the last year include making 60% profit on FTO in just over a month, and 64% on KAZ in the space of three months.

You shouldn't forget sir, that anybody can be a fund manager. There are non-graduate fund managers out there, not that having a degree gives any particular edge in this game, and there are those who might easily have just ended up in some other type of office, with much lower salaries and doing more complex work...

All it takes is some mindpower, alertness, good sense, time invested, and the ability to learn & absorb. I've spent hundreds of hours in the last year studying companies, and I feel my time has been well spent.


*And by special situations, I don't backing a hunch that something boring like VOD will have recovered the £2 sp in a couple of years! I mean going with a lesser known outfit that looks very attractive, even after in-depth research, and letting it run for a time. Short-term, high risk, high potential. If it doesn't do what you want, cut & run. Set rules before executing, and stick to them.
 
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platypus said:
The non-taxable savings aspect of pensions is still attractive, but I think I'll be just sticking money into my ISA and stocks and shares.

The huge advantage of a personal pension is that fact that you get 22% tax relief immediately on your contributions. Pay £78 in and this is made up to £100 for you (the insurance/pension company claim this relief on your behalf).

This is a huge advantage due to the fact that this "tax relief" builds up and up during the early years. The more you pay in the more tax relief you get. If a high rate tax payer you can then claim an additional 18% relief via your tax return.

You can then at retirement take 25% as a tax free lump sum and the remaining 75% is used to "buy" your pension with.

Within a ISA you get no tax relief on your premiums, but the lump sum you build up is tax-efficent, and can be taken at any time without any tax payable on redemption.
 
booyaka said:
Managed funds will over any longer term (10yrs etc) outperform 95% of tracker funds.
That is simply wrong, really.

Find me a risk free savings account that has out-performed any major, large retail investment fund over the last 10 years. Equities and stocks/shares will by there nature out perform savings accounts over the longer 10yrs plus term.
There are many funds which are still down on ten year performance, never mind having outperformed a risk free savings account which would have provided perhaps 35% return in that period.

I'm afraid it is a fact that most managed funds underperform the index over time. The only ones which beat it, only do so for a certain period of time. Of course, with hundreds if not thousands of funds to choose from, the law of averages dictates that there will always, at any given moment, be managed funds with stellar performance. Just as if you let enough monkeys pick shares by throwing darts at the pages of the FT, some of them will pick winners.
 
dirtydog said:
That is simply wrong, really.


There are many funds which are still down on ten year performance, never mind having outperformed a risk free savings account which would have provided perhaps 35% return in that period.

I'm afraid it is a fact that most managed funds underperform the index over time. The only ones which beat it, only do so for a certain period of time. Of course, with hundreds if not thousands of funds to choose from, the law of averages dictates that there will always, at any given moment, be managed funds with stellar performance. Just as if you let enough monkeys pick shares by throwing darts at the pages of the FT, some of them will pick winners.

Guessing we will agree to disagree then?? :p :p
 
Bes said:
Now that is a man with a plan ;)

I'm a big fan of gold and think it has far to go over the next year or so- silver potentially even moreso IMO. Impossible to predict after that but I can only see it holding up well.

Do you use goldmoney.com or someone, or invest in a tracker, or hold it in a bank?

Yes I have some in goldmoney, just to try it out. But there's a 5% or so initial spread and then storage costs. I actually keep nearly everything extremely well hidden at home. Obviously won't go in to details, but let's just say it's not under the bed ;)
 
bottletop said:
Yes I have some in goldmoney, just to try it out. But there's a 5% or so initial spread and then storage costs. I actually keep nearly everything extremely well hidden at home. Obviously won't go in to details, but let's just say it's not under the bed ;)
Silver ain't exactly space efficient in any large quantity though :)

Can you MSN me on [email protected] please?

Thanks
 
Im lucky with my pension

•9.5% of my pay goes to it a month
•final salary scheme
•I can retire at 55
•A maximum pension is half of final pay and there is also an automatic tax-free lump sum of four times the pension.

Its not as good as the older pension, however im guaranteed that come 35yrs from now
 
bottletop said:
Yes I have some in goldmoney, just to try it out. But there's a 5% or so initial spread and then storage costs. I actually keep nearly everything extremely well hidden at home. Obviously won't go in to details, but let's just say it's not under the bed ;)
So do you actually have the gold?

The reason I ask is I saw a video quite recently (published here) and the guy in it said there was something like 50% more paper gold than actual gold in the world. I wouldn't mind buying gold but it's quite worrying hearing things like that.
 
Paying 5% into a final salary scheme. If I work for 40 years I'll retire on two thirds salary.
My industry is pretty safe and I feel quite confident that the pension scheme will still be OK when I come to retire.
 
Mr Joshua said:
So do you actually have the gold?

The reason I ask is I saw a video quite recently (published here) and the guy in it said there was something like 50% more paper gold than actual gold in the world. I wouldn't mind buying gold but it's quite worrying hearing things like that.


Yeah, I have it - mostly from ebay (sovereigns, krugerrands etc) but also from www.weightoncoin.com and www.goldline.co.uk. Goldmoney is pretty good in that respect as they actually purchase real physical bullion and store it on your behalf.

I agree you have to be very careful with paper claims based on the value of gold...buying GBS securities for example gives you no claim to real bullion. And the figures I heard were 10x as much paper claims to real gold (but who';s counting :) )

There's a fair bit of evidence that a large amount of western central bank's gold has been leased out to bullion banks (at say 1% interest) who then sold it on the physical market (surpressing it's price and maintaining confidence in fiat currencies) and invested the money in government securities paying say 5% so the bullion banks make a net 4% profit. The central banks accounts appear ok as they have paper claims to receive gold back from the bullion banks, but of course they can never get it back at anything like current prices since the physical market for gold is so small.


" If you don't hold it you don't own it" is my way of thinking
 
i started working at a new place a few months ago.
HR mentioned the Pension scheme, and all it's pro's.
bizarely they didn't mention it currently has a £450,000,000 defecit.
i found that out myself.

think i'll maybe steer clear of that then...
 
Don't be too put off by a £450m defecit. Mine has a £200m hole. Be worried if they don't have a plan to get out the hole - this plan will usually start with the closure of the final salary schemes.
I joined my company's final salary scheme the last DAY it was accepting new people. Other people who joined my company at the same time but weren't so quick are now bumped onto a stakeholder jobby.
 
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