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Which 939 X2 Core? Manchester or Toledo?

Gimpymoo

Gimpymoo

Gimpymoo

Soldato
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Nottingham
Which Core is preferred.

Does one clock better than the other?

Im aware one did have more cache, but if you had the choice of both with the same cache, which would you choose?
 
i'm sure i read somewhere that the manchester is basically 2x venice cores and toledo is 2x San diego cores.
 
Gimpymoo said:
Thanks all.

An X2 4200 Toledo it is then :)
Click to expand...

Doesn't exist mate!

Manchester:
3800+ X2, 4200+ X2, 4600+ X2. Defined at So939 dual cores with 512kib L2 cache per core.

Toledo:
4400+ X2, 4800+ X2. Defined as So939 dual cores with 1mb L2 cache per core.

If you're going for a Manchester core, then go for the 3800+ X2 rather than the 4200+ X2. The recent 3800s are reaching 2.6Ghz at least on stock voltage, and up to 2.8Ghz with a little more Vcore.

The advantage with the Toledos is the extra cache size, which does provide a noticeable performance boost. The extra 512kb cache per core is supposed to equal around a 200Mhz boost in core clock, which makes the "real world" performance of a 4400+ X2 and a 4600+ X2 around the same.

Having said that, clock speed can be increased with overclocking but you can't add cache. And that cache does make a difference.

To sum up:
3800+ X2 Manchester: will clock at least to 2.6Ghz, cheap, but the lack of cache causes worse performance in software which uses that cache (eg. encoding, anything involving large files or the CPU moving data around).

4200+ X2 Manchester: Not worth the extra over the 3800+ X2. If you decide on a Manchester, get the 3800+ X2.

4400+ X2 Toledo: Won't clock as high as the Manchester, the extra cache holds it back. Expensive and hard to find. However, extra L2 cache makes a noticeable difference in real world performance, and the CPU will cope a lot better with cache intensive apps.

If you do a lot of gaming, remember a lot of games will still be single threaded. In this case, the highest core clocked CPU will almost always win out. Ie. A 3800+ clocked to 2.6Ghz will beat a 4400+ clocked to 2.4Ghz in terms of game performance (FPS).

Jon
 
GeForce said:
Doesn't exist mate!

Manchester:
3800+ X2, 4200+ X2, 4600+ X2. Defined at So939 dual cores with 512kib L2 cache per core.

Toledo:
4400+ X2, 4800+ X2. Defined as So939 dual cores with 1mb L2 cache per core.
Click to expand...

Not true iirc, there are some x2 4200 toledos, with half the cache disabled.
 
Minstadave said:
Not true iirc, there are some x2 4200 toledos, with half the cache disabled.
Click to expand...

True. As you say they're manufactured Toledos, and then half their L2 cache is disabled. So technically they're Toledos, but they're Manchesters.

Just to make things confusing :D

Jon
 
GeForce said:
True. As you say they're manufactured Toledos, and then half their L2 cache is disabled. So technically they're Toledos, but they're Manchesters.

Just to make things confusing :D

Jon
Click to expand...

Manchesters are native 2x512kb, the Toledos with their disabled cache aren't native 2x512kb, and iirc the Toledos clock better hence the reason of wanting one over the other.
 
I'm not speaking from experience here, but the impression I generally got was that the Manchesters clocked better because they had less cache to hold them back.

But recent 3800+ X2s crippled Toledos have been hitting ~2.8Ghz, so it's not all that clear cut.

Jon
 
toledo.jpg


mine atm running at 2800 255 fsb
 
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GeForce said:
I'm not speaking from experience here, but the impression I generally got was that the Manchesters clocked better because they had less cache to hold them back.

But recent 3800+ X2s crippled Toledos have been hitting ~2.8Ghz, so it's not all that clear cut.

Jon
Click to expand...

Well i recently after playing about a bit got 3.1Ghz from my 4200+ Toledo @ 1.5v, does 2.8Ghz on 1.375v. Had Manchesters before and few hit 3Ghz though i got that 3Ghz a lot more from my Toledos (crippled and full ones).
 
Last edited:
GeForce said:
Doesn't exist mate!

Manchester:
3800+ X2, 4200+ X2, 4600+ X2. Defined at So939 dual cores with 512kib L2 cache per core.

Toledo:
4400+ X2, 4800+ X2. Defined as So939 dual cores with 1mb L2 cache per core.

If you're going for a Manchester core, then go for the 3800+ X2 rather than the 4200+ X2. The recent 3800s are reaching 2.6Ghz at least on stock voltage, and up to 2.8Ghz with a little more Vcore.

The advantage with the Toledos is the extra cache size, which does provide a noticeable performance boost. The extra 512kb cache per core is supposed to equal around a 200Mhz boost in core clock, which makes the "real world" performance of a 4400+ X2 and a 4600+ X2 around the same.

Having said that, clock speed can be increased with overclocking but you can't add cache. And that cache does make a difference.

To sum up:
3800+ X2 Manchester: will clock at least to 2.6Ghz, cheap, but the lack of cache causes worse performance in software which uses that cache (eg. encoding, anything involving large files or the CPU moving data around).

4200+ X2 Manchester: Not worth the extra over the 3800+ X2. If you decide on a Manchester, get the 3800+ X2.

4400+ X2 Toledo: Won't clock as high as the Manchester, the extra cache holds it back. Expensive and hard to find. However, extra L2 cache makes a noticeable difference in real world performance, and the CPU will cope a lot better with cache intensive apps.

If you do a lot of gaming, remember a lot of games will still be single threaded. In this case, the highest core clocked CPU will almost always win out. Ie. A 3800+ clocked to 2.6Ghz will beat a 4400+ clocked to 2.4Ghz in terms of game performance (FPS).

Jon
Click to expand...

well i got a x2 3800+ toledo here?
 
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