Which hot hatch has the best tuning potential?

Please elaborate.

The materials and components in a basic car are chosen depending on its performance. Brabus or AMG dont just take a standard car and add a remap. They change a lot more than that so the extra performance can be applied rather than wasted.

Sure, you can remap a FWD car to 400Bhp but doesn't mean you'll get 400Bhp of performance.

Along with a remap you should generally:

- upgrade the dump valve
- add a Performance air filter
- change the exhaust system- enable the engine to breath more easily adding to it's efficiency and producing more power and torque.
- change the intercooler

The most important thing on a car is its brakes!
Adding better or bigger brakes should be essential on cars with huge BHP gains.

PS. I'm not talking about cars with 30/50Bhp gains from remaps. I'm talking 100Bhp+
 
Last edited:
LOL you just lost all credibility with that statement.

Err, Why?

Standard valves are known to leak when dealing with increased boost pressure.

Of course it is different for different engines, but it's not really THAT "lol"
 
Err, Why?

Standard valves are known to leak when dealing with increased boost pressure.

Of course it is different for different engines, but it's not really THAT "lol"

Two of the best tuning hot hatches, including the Seat Leon Cupra which can gain 100bhp (with a milltek + other Stage 2 mods) & the Astra VXR use recirc valves and shouldn't be touched with dump valves as they will just mess things up.

The Focus ST dump valve is actually integral with the turbo. One of the most respected tuning packs for the Focus ST - the mountune kit is so well respected it keeps the ford warranty, doesnt fit a dump valve.

The Golf GTI and Audi S3 having similar engines - also use recirc valves.

I can pick holes with lots of your other statements as well, like that remaps need an exhaust. They don't need one at all. In many cases, tuners have specific maps for cars with a standard exhaust, and with a modified one, so you can have the right map for your exhaust. You'll get extra power yes, but with extra money. The same is true for any tuning part.

Thats 6 of the top selling hot hatches who should never have a dump valve put near their engine.

What was your point again ?
 
Last edited:
P.S. the Leon doesnt remap 100bhp on its own.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORI.../LEON/revo_seat_leon_cupra_k1_car_review.html

The 100bhp is with a milltek exhaust, uprated fuel pump, uprated recirc valve, revised intake, and remap to suit the mods.

I dont think any cars do 100bhp with JUST a remap. With each extra part, you'll gain extra performance. But you can just tune to stage 1, you don't have to go to Stage 2 / 3 and fit uprated intercoolers, uprated exhausts, etc.. They aren't needed on a stage 1 tune.
 
If your honestly interested define the word tuning ?

I made my s2000 significantly quicker without spending a penny on power mods...

It's a shame you won't consider turbo kits....

Mx5 1.8iS
Coilovers + alignment
R888's
Homebrew turbo kit

... Circa 200 bhp which will give mid 5's to 60, handle amazingly well and id imagine could be done for close to change from 5k.
 
In answer to the original question the VAG 2L TFSI with the ko4 turbo has the most tuning potential on a stock turbo and engine. Up from 240-260bhp depending what car it is in to 380bhp with a few bolt on mods. I can't think of another engine that can get 50% power increase with a stock engine and turbo. With uprated rods and a bigger turbo they are starting to hit 500bhp in track cars.

I'll agree with you that keeping the turbo stock aswell there is very little out there to compete, but there is certainly one other engine i can think of that has extremely good tuning potential. The old Saab B2x2/B2x4 series engines were so over engineered that they can be tuned to over 500hp on standard internals. This kind of tuning only requires suitable bolt ons. With the standard turbo you can take it from 225hp to about 310hp, which is the absolute limit for the TD04 15T, with a hybrid 19T compressor wheel this is around 360hp. Best i've seen so far is a guy who has fitted a holset VGT to a B204. (2.0) The turbo is the same sort of size as a GT35 but with the spool up capabilities of a T28. The guy has built it in a 9000 for the time being as a test bed, apparently he is planning on putting something like it into his reliant kitten.

Another one put into an E30 here.
BMWAero12.jpg

They are most commonly put into vauxhall's as the bellhousing bolts match, making it easier to fit. The best bit about these engines is that the engine management system is home tunable. You can even live map it on the dyno yourself, have live data via car pc and perform data logging of all input parameters.

Only problem is the cars aren't what could ever be termed hot hatch as they were never small, and don't handle well enough. The modern tat that you get out of them nowadays is crap, you need forged internals to reliably get past 300hp on the B2x5 series. Don't know much about the ecotec series (which is what the 4 pot VXR's use aswell as the 93 aero).

My own car should be remapped again soon up from 185hp to around 270hp with only a bigger downpipe. (which cost the grand total of £35 for a SS decat) I'll be at the expensive stage after this, I'll need bigger injectors, a better clutch and a bigger turbo. (already got the turbo, which i'm keeping till the original T25 surrenders as its already pushing 1.4 bar)
 
Buy a faster car in the first place, then you aint got to mess about with tuning it.

I agree with the above to be honest.

When it comes to tuning even the cheapest routes will cost more.

£200 Remap, which will may well require a bigger clutch £500, then maybe different plugs and possibly a bigger IC £300, maybe an uprated fuel pump £200.

By the time you have added a "usable" 100bhp at the wheels you will probably need bigger brakes £500~ upwards, sir.

If you want a modded car, buy one and spend the money you were going to spend on making it smooth and lovely.

Otherwise, just buy a quick car and enjoy what it is. Car companies spend millions on getting the best bang for the buck, i doubt you will top it for a couple of grand (in almost all circumstances).
 
My argument for tuning is that the vast majority of cars sold are compromises designed to appeal to the widest possible audience. All compromises can be improved on in one way or another, tuning and modifying (In the proper sense of doing proper oily bits, not the fast and the furious) is all about tailoring the car to your tastes and ridding it of these compromises that made it such a people pleaser when it was shiny and new.

It's all very good saying "Buy a faster car", but what if a faster/better car doesn't exist within your price range (even with modifications factored in) or even at all in the case of some of these Hatchbacks well in excess of 300BHP? What if you find a car that you think is brilliant in 95% of areas but just needs a little a little fine tuning to suit the way you use the car?
 
Completely discard this post if you like as it isn't in the same class, but as i'm younger it's all I can get.

I have bought a 1.4 Turbo Grande Punto with ~120bhp. I plan to change induction kit, turbo, exhaust, FMIC and possibly injectors and I should be good for about 200bhp. All the parts should come to about £1000 inc remap.

Not bad for a 20 y/old. Pretty good gains for a 1.4 lol. Turbo's are definitely the way to go for easy tuning.
 
Well, if I could get insured on and afford to run something like a Focus ST/Audi S3 do you not think I would get one? Not planning on having this for much more than 2 years anyway. Just a stop gap. It's better than my old 1.2 with 60bhp.
 
The materials and components in a basic car are chosen depending on its performance. Brabus or AMG dont just take a standard car and add a remap. They change a lot more than that so the extra performance can be applied rather than wasted.

Sure, you can remap a FWD car to 400Bhp but doesn't mean you'll get 400Bhp of performance.

Along with a remap you should generally:

- upgrade the dump valve
- add a Performance air filter
- change the exhaust system- enable the engine to breath more easily adding to it's efficiency and producing more power and torque.
- change the intercooler

If the standard dump valve is strong enough to hold the extra boost, the airbox and filter can flow enough air, the exhaust can flow enough gas and the intercooler can keep charge temps low enough then why?

Sure some cars will require some or all of these things doing to make more power, but saying you must do these with a remap is ridiculous.

Let me offer the Focus ST as an example. This will make 260-270BHP on a remap alone - the rest of the standard components can handle this fine, although on particularly hot days you might notice a little loss of power with the standard intercooler. However, if we add the items you mention, it will make 300bhp with a remap to suit. Upgrading these items is just a way of getting more power, that isn't to say that the standard items cannot cope with more power on any car.

The most important thing on a car is its brakes!
Adding better or bigger brakes should be essential on cars with huge BHP gains.

Again, this isn't always neccesary. Again, the ST came with very good brakes. Throw some decent pads and some braided lines at it, and they will be sufficient for most people - even on track.

PS. I'm not talking about cars with 30/50Bhp gains from remaps. I'm talking 100Bhp+

Well this makes everything you've said completely pointless. You said a remap was pointless without the above. A 50bhp remap is hardly pointless.
 
Last edited:
Yes actually. Was suprised myself. Exhaust, induction kit, lowering springs, remap only put it up by ~£100. Will be a bit more for turbo and injectors mind.
 
Completely discard this post if you like as it isn't in the same class, but as i'm younger it's all I can get.

I have bought a 1.4 Turbo Grande Punto with ~120bhp. I plan to change induction kit, turbo, exhaust, FMIC and possibly injectors and I should be good for about 200bhp. All the parts should come to about £1000 inc remap.

Not bad for a 20 y/old. Pretty good gains for a 1.4 lol. Turbo's are definitely the way to go for easy tuning.

I know I'm contradicting myself here, I think this is a prime example of "Just buy another car" :(.

Well, if I could get insured on and afford to run something like a Focus ST/Audi S3 do you not think I would get one? Not planning on having this for much more than 2 years anyway. Just a stop gap. It's better than my old 1.2 with 60bhp.

A Focus ST/Audi S3 will probably be cheaper to insure than an extensively modified Punto...
 
Back
Top Bottom