I so wish I had proper internet atm, as I'd spend a lot of time on this thread. Hatter, you're a great example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you'd like to learn more from a scientific perspective, read Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health by Dr Tom Lonsdale. It's over 400 pages (iirc) of peer-reviewed meta-analysis and original research showing why commercial diets are killing your pets.
Even by Pet Food Manufacturers' (PFMs) own statistics, >80% of domesticated carnivores (dogs, cats, ferrets) fed on a commercial diet are suffering from periodontal disease at a level warranting surgical intervention by age 3 years. This rises to virtually 100% over time. This figure is negligibly low for those fed proper appropriate raw food (whole raw carcasses and parts thereof). (Penman, S. and P. Emily. 1991. Scaling, Polishing and Dental Home Care. Waltham International Focus. 1(3): 2-8. In Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. pg 110).
Periodontal disease is one of the primary causes of serious illness, disease and death in captive carnivores. It is facilitated directly by incorrect diet, primarily incorrect consistency and content, leading to disease of the gingiva, periodontal structures and teeth. This then infests the bloodstream with bacteria, causing stenosis, other heart diseases, low renal function (often followed by failure), pancreatitis, liver disease and hepatic failure etc etc...
That's without even mentioning all the auto-immune disease, arthritis, and other inflammatory (painful) diseases directly resulting from feeding a commercial diet. This is all clearly established and acknowledged even by PFMs!
You stated that it was appropriate and indeed beneficial to provide a dog (or other captive carnivore?) with dried food in order to provide a tooth-cleaning effect. This is simple propaganda by the PFMs, and demonstrably incorrect if one looks at the literature. Taking a real-world example, if dried food is so good for sustainable oral health, why do PFMs then market 'dental' chews, sticks, etc?? Talk about creating your own niche market! Create poor oral health, by design, then sell a 'solution'. Sad.
Dogs are essentially an offshoot of the Grey Wolf (Lupus lupus). They differ in only 0.2% of their mDNA (small DNA not big stuff). See Robert K. Wayne, "Molecular evolution of the family dog," Trends in Genetics, June 1993 (vol. 9, #6) pp. 218-224 for details. This makes them carnivores, and designed to eat not grain, or vegetables, but whole raw carcasses.
Dogs (and cats, ferrets etc) fed a diet of whole raw carcasses and parts thereof are shown to have virtually no incidence of periodontal disease and related maladies. This means no need for tooth cleaning, scale/polish, extractions etc and no bad 'dog breath'. It also means no debilitating disease and a long and healthy 'puppy' life, which also provides less vet bills to the owner.
It's an established scientific 'fact' (as far as one can go) that this is so. Demonstrable and replicable, too.
So why pay a fortune for poor quality dry 'food' (IAMs, Royal Canin etc are amongst the worst due to maize content and so on), when it is literally destroying the animals' health even by PFMs own scientific literature? Raw food doesn't have to be complex. My own animals have been thriving for years on chicken quarters, lamb and pork ribs, turkey legs and all the other stuff available in a supermarket. Mine also happen to enjoy whole rabbit, squirrel, hare, pigeon, pheasant, deer/venison, and fish but that's not essential.
The ash content debate is irrelevant as ash is simply the remains of the testing process for nutritional content (i.e. the vitamin and mineral content left after incinerating the food items for testing). Whether fresh food or dried it still contains 'ash' as that's simply the macro and micro nutrients. Fresh whole food contains much higher (and more bio-available, and suitable) levels of these as this is precisely the food the animals have evolved to eat.
The recourse to arguing that modern technology renders 'old' and 'traditional' diet obsolete is false. When did you last use a digestive biscuit to clean your teeth? Studies (see Colyer, F et al.) show that native peoples eating a fresh traditional diet have no issues with caries (cavities) or erosion/decay, and this is due to eating a species appropriate, natural diet. This also is scientifically demonstrable with our carnivorous friends.
So I'm unsure as to why you appeal to reason using science as your standing post, yet fail to provide any actual science. I can happily provide you several pages of references demonstrating my position (all peer reviewed in mainstream journals) if you like, but would be interested to see - outside of PFM advertisements or propaganda - what literature you can provide to show that the health of captive carnivores is aided (rather than hindered) by a processed junk food diet?
Looking forward to your reply, but apologising in advance for my lack of access and hence any slow replies.
Even by Pet Food Manufacturers' (PFMs) own statistics, >80% of domesticated carnivores (dogs, cats, ferrets) fed on a commercial diet are suffering from periodontal disease at a level warranting surgical intervention by age 3 years. This rises to virtually 100% over time. This figure is negligibly low for those fed proper appropriate raw food (whole raw carcasses and parts thereof). (Penman, S. and P. Emily. 1991. Scaling, Polishing and Dental Home Care. Waltham International Focus. 1(3): 2-8. In Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. pg 110).
Periodontal disease is one of the primary causes of serious illness, disease and death in captive carnivores. It is facilitated directly by incorrect diet, primarily incorrect consistency and content, leading to disease of the gingiva, periodontal structures and teeth. This then infests the bloodstream with bacteria, causing stenosis, other heart diseases, low renal function (often followed by failure), pancreatitis, liver disease and hepatic failure etc etc...
That's without even mentioning all the auto-immune disease, arthritis, and other inflammatory (painful) diseases directly resulting from feeding a commercial diet. This is all clearly established and acknowledged even by PFMs!
You stated that it was appropriate and indeed beneficial to provide a dog (or other captive carnivore?) with dried food in order to provide a tooth-cleaning effect. This is simple propaganda by the PFMs, and demonstrably incorrect if one looks at the literature. Taking a real-world example, if dried food is so good for sustainable oral health, why do PFMs then market 'dental' chews, sticks, etc?? Talk about creating your own niche market! Create poor oral health, by design, then sell a 'solution'. Sad.
Dogs are essentially an offshoot of the Grey Wolf (Lupus lupus). They differ in only 0.2% of their mDNA (small DNA not big stuff). See Robert K. Wayne, "Molecular evolution of the family dog," Trends in Genetics, June 1993 (vol. 9, #6) pp. 218-224 for details. This makes them carnivores, and designed to eat not grain, or vegetables, but whole raw carcasses.
Dogs (and cats, ferrets etc) fed a diet of whole raw carcasses and parts thereof are shown to have virtually no incidence of periodontal disease and related maladies. This means no need for tooth cleaning, scale/polish, extractions etc and no bad 'dog breath'. It also means no debilitating disease and a long and healthy 'puppy' life, which also provides less vet bills to the owner.
It's an established scientific 'fact' (as far as one can go) that this is so. Demonstrable and replicable, too.
So why pay a fortune for poor quality dry 'food' (IAMs, Royal Canin etc are amongst the worst due to maize content and so on), when it is literally destroying the animals' health even by PFMs own scientific literature? Raw food doesn't have to be complex. My own animals have been thriving for years on chicken quarters, lamb and pork ribs, turkey legs and all the other stuff available in a supermarket. Mine also happen to enjoy whole rabbit, squirrel, hare, pigeon, pheasant, deer/venison, and fish but that's not essential.
The ash content debate is irrelevant as ash is simply the remains of the testing process for nutritional content (i.e. the vitamin and mineral content left after incinerating the food items for testing). Whether fresh food or dried it still contains 'ash' as that's simply the macro and micro nutrients. Fresh whole food contains much higher (and more bio-available, and suitable) levels of these as this is precisely the food the animals have evolved to eat.
The recourse to arguing that modern technology renders 'old' and 'traditional' diet obsolete is false. When did you last use a digestive biscuit to clean your teeth? Studies (see Colyer, F et al.) show that native peoples eating a fresh traditional diet have no issues with caries (cavities) or erosion/decay, and this is due to eating a species appropriate, natural diet. This also is scientifically demonstrable with our carnivorous friends.
So I'm unsure as to why you appeal to reason using science as your standing post, yet fail to provide any actual science. I can happily provide you several pages of references demonstrating my position (all peer reviewed in mainstream journals) if you like, but would be interested to see - outside of PFM advertisements or propaganda - what literature you can provide to show that the health of captive carnivores is aided (rather than hindered) by a processed junk food diet?
Looking forward to your reply, but apologising in advance for my lack of access and hence any slow replies.
