Which macro?

Gaffer

Gaffer

Gaffer

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Joined
1 Aug 2007
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1,052
My kit is:

Canon D5 (35mm CCD)
Canon 100-400mm L
Canon 85mm f1.2 L
Canon 16-35mm L

This serve me pretty well, but I would like to dabble in macro.

The choices as I see it are:

EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM
This gives 1x magnification at 31cm

EF 180 mm f/3.5L Macro USM
This gives 1x magnification at 45cm.
A bit slower then the 100mm

EF 50 mm f/2.5 Macro
This only gives 0.5x magnification

MP-E65 f/2.8 1-5 x Macro
This gives a whopping 5x magnification at 24cm
This lens only does manual focus.

To make things simple, having looked at the prices, I'll say "Money no object" but I'm only going to buy one lens.

I think that the 50mm is straight out.
I think I would rather go for the longer length of the 180 over the 100 to give me a better chance to sneak up on the compulsary dragon fly without scaring it off. This also gives me the "L" lens.

That leaves a choice between the 180L and the MP-65

I've not done macro before, so I don't really know what I want, don't really know how to choose.

Would you go for the telephoto L or the 5X manual?

Andrew
 
First, its a 5D, its not a Nikon :p

As for the lens, depends really, if you doing lots of tripod still shots then the E65 for me. The extra magnification would be amazing, and manual focus won't be a problem since you are controlling the situation.

If you are doing insects and outdoors, then the 180mm, but it's "only" F/3.5.
 
Raymond Lin said:
As for the lens, depends really, if you doing lots of tripod still shots then the E65 for me.
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Indoor/outdoor is a helpful comment. Not absolute, but a useful way to "position" them.

Raymond Lin said:
The extra magnification would be amazing, and manual focus won't be a problem since you are controlling the situation.
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Yes. The idea of filling the width of frame with 7mm is impressive.

I can't put my finger on it but I get the vague impression that it would be a wierd lens to use. Does it do things in a strange way? The sort of thing I'm thinking of is, for example: Requiring that you decide the magnification you want first, then move the camera to a distance that suits that magnifiation, then focus.

Raymond Lin said:
If you are doing insects and outdoors, then the 180mm, but it's "only" F/3.5.
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I get the impression that I will often be wanting as small an aperture as I can get away with anyway, Is that a fair assumption?

Andrew
 
Mates got the 100mm macro and it's ace. Don't worry too much about capture distance since it's my understanding that the distance they use measures from either the imaging sensor or one the first lens element rather than the tip of the lens.

Plus, with the extra length of the 180mm i'd say the distance from the subject will be ultimately very similar so i'd want the lens with the lower f number.

If money was no object i'd get the MPE65 but as it stands the 100mm is excellent value for money!

gt
 
MPE-65 all the way. You won't regret it!

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Don't worry about it being manual focus only, when taking macro shots you always you the manual mode and focus by rocking backwards/fowards. The only thing to worry about with the MPE is that it has a pretty small working distance and that it starts from 1x magnification which if you haven't got another macro lens might mean you don't have the option to fit a larger subject in the frame. Also at high (3:1 and up) i''ve found it necessary to use some kind of flash setup.

Between the 100mm and 180mm macro I would (and did) go for the 100mm. It just works very well and the working distance is fine. With either of these lenses you can use extension tubes that will give you upto 2:1 magnification.

EDIT
Just notice you say the MPE65 does 5x macro at 24cm, it doesn't. It's more like 2.4cm!

Gaffer said:
I can't put my finger on it but I get the vague impression that it would be a wierd lens to use. Does it do things in a strange way? The sort of thing I'm thinking of is, for example: Requiring that you decide the magnification you want first, then move the camera to a distance that suits that magnifiation, then focus.
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That's one way of using it. I tend to start off at 1x and move to focus, then increase the magnification and move closer whilst always watching your subject through the camera. This is because were you to start off at 3+x magnification you would have a nightmare of a time locating the subject as the FOV is very small.

Gaffer said:
I get the impression that I will often be wanting as small an aperture as I can get away with anyway, Is that a fair assumption?
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It's very good to have a wide an aperture as possible available to you but not for the reason most people assume. Most people very rarely shoot macro at F2.8, especially with an MPE. However the wide aperture means you have a much brighter viewfinder, making it easier to see if your subject is in focus or not. I do most of my macro shots at about F7.1 - F11.
 
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yak.h'cir said:
MPE-65 all the way. You won't regret it!
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Wow!

I said that I didn't know what I wanted to do, but you've cleared that up for me. I want to be able to take shots like that!

MPE-65 it is. And a Ring-Lite. And a tripod.

Thanks for your help.

Andrew
 
Good choice :)

The ring light will definitely come in handy, although I must say I've only used a tripod twice with this lens and if you want to make regular use of a tripod for shots make sure you get one with a dedicated macro head as you need to be able to make very small/precise movements with it.

I use the twin macro flash which works very well, only problem being that sometimes you have to get so close to your subject to focus that the flash gets in the way i.e. if your talking a picture of a butterfly on a flower sometimes you might be in the situation where as you move closer to focus the flash is pushing the flower (and therefore butterfly) further away.
 
we have a resident dragonfly in my garden, around nearly every morning. yellow and black thing, really big! but he never lands for more than 20 seconds! so no matter how slow or fast you go you can never get him :@
 
You could try leaving some fruit out in a regular place, you'll soon get a whole host of insects etc that come to hang out for longer periods of time. Also they tend to sit still for longer early in the morning when they're still warming up.
 
yak.h'cir said:
MPE-65 all the way. You won't regret it!
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Well, I was at a major Canon stockist today...

I actualy went there to buy a 2x converter for the 100-400L, but I tried it out and quickly decided that it is the most dissapointing thing I've ever tried from Canon. Viewfinder image was poor. The Autofocus didn't work.

So, instead I walked out with a MPE-65.

It's a *wierd* bit of kit.

It starts off looking "a bit bulky" for 65mm. There is one control ring and it rotates a whopping 480 degrees as it pushes the front of the lens out to nearly three times the original length to zoom from 1x to 5x.

They said "manual focus" but there is no(*) focus ring. You move the camera to get the image in focus.

The distance to the focal point depends upon magnification:

1x 101mm
2x 63mm
3x 51mm
4x 44mm
5x 41mm

And getting in focus is no trivial matter. The depth of field at 5x is a quarter of a millimeter at 5x f/16. But at 5x, the effective aperture is ony f/96, so you'll be wanting to hold it very still...

I havn't managed to take a decent picture with it yet, but my good friend rilot just lent me a tripod, ringflash and remote release, so I hope to do something soon.

(*)That's not true. The magnification ring changes the focal length too, so by adjusting the magnification you can fine-tune the focus. Kinda like being able to focus by turning a zoom control. Wierd, I tell you...

Andrew
 
:) It's certainly a different lens! Don't worry too much about the manual focus being you moving physically, this is how most people take macro shots even with lenses that have an auto focus function.

Regards aperture, you won't want to go above 7.1 at 5x as the diffraction destroys the detail any higher. @ 1x I find F11 works best and just work between these when using the middle magnifications.

Turning the ring changes the focusing distance and therefore the magnification, the focal length of the lens remains at 65mm the whole time.

Really don't worry about using a tripod. It's very frustrating and I've only even had one photo work out whilst using one with this lens. Hand hold every time! The ring flash will be a great help though. I find positioning the flash so the bulbs are above and below the subject with the above being set to about 3x brighter will give the most natural looking pictures.

Good luck! And make sure to post pictures. :p
 
Ive seen it around for about £680 too, like to hear what sort of deal you can get, will have to wait a few months before i can get one.
 
yak.h'cir said:
Really don't worry about using a tripod. It's very frustrating and I've only even had one photo work out whilst using one with this lens. Hand hold every time!
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I was struggling with hand-holding.

For my first picture, I wanted to snap the pixels on my screen. Thought it would be easy because the screen comes with it's own illumination... Without a tripod, I was just resting the camera on a book. But the book wasn't stable enough - the vibration from my breathing and from my pulse was making the image jiggle around, let alone when I squeezed the trigger and the mirror started clattering.

I'll try again with a tripod, mirror lock and remote trigger.

Good luck! And make sure to post pictures. :p
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Of course...

Andrew
 
What shutter speed were you using? I make sure I'm above 1/100th and that usually allows for hand holding. Give the tripod a try but it's very frustrating, as I'm sure you've discovered the depth of field is often about 1-2mm and it's quite hard to make such small adjustments with a tripod.

If you're not getting sharp images I would say start off with checking your settings, make sure the shutter speed is above 1/100th (make what ever adjustments you need to to get this-increased light source/higher ISO/F2.8), then start off taking a picture at 1x, find you focus and take a few pictures moving slowly backwards and forwards. After this increase the magnification a bit and see what you get. With practice you'll get much better at using the lens and develop your own technique but this is a good place to start.

If you're using a flash I find setting the camera to manual mode (1/160th and around F9), the flash being set to ETTL mode works well most of the time.
 
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