Which order to renovate a room?

[DanTheMan]

Our bedroom is currently back to brick and floorboards and I want to make sure I do things in the right order.

So far, first fix electrics and plumbing is done.

The plan is:

- Overboard floorboards with 12mm ply
- Overboard ceiling with 12mm plasterboard
- Fill gaps between door frame and walls
- Batten walls, insulate and plasterboard walls
- Fit new windowsill
- Skim
- Flooring down
- Second fix electrics
- skirting, architrave
- Decorate

Main thought is around whether to overboard the floors before or after battening the walls.

It makes sense to do the floor first but access will be an absolute nightmare if some of the board goes under the battens / plasterboard. I'm thinking I'll bring the screws on the flooring away from the walls enough so they are accessible and leave a small gap between batten and floor, so the only can be lifted.

I'm sure I've also missed bits that I should be doing at this point.

Thoughts?

 

[dlockers]

I'm not a fan of walls over floors - so I did walls, then floor. If you're just overboard tho then probably limited dramas. If you are forecasting taking the floor back up you may have bigger problems lol.

Why are you battening? I just glued insulated plasterboard and was done with it.

 

[DanTheMan]

I'm not a fan of walls over floors - so I did walls, then floor. If you're just overboard tho then probably limited dramas. If you are forecasting taking the floor back up you may have bigger problems lol.

Why are you battening? I just glued insulated plasterboard and was done with it.

Thanks.

Originally the batten and board was to allow 25mm insulation behind and to allow room for wiring. Also, I presumed even insulated plasterboard would still leave gaos between the wall and the board if dot and dabbed / glued, which wouldn't be ideal for noise transfer?

I presume you can cut the insulated side of the board to allow room for wiring and bits of uneven brickwork? Or is the insulated side slightly softer than plasterboard and absorbed small bits of unevenness?

 

[dlockers]

Thanks.

Originally the batten and board was to allow 25mm insulation behind and to allow room for wiring. Also, I presumed even insulated plasterboard would still leave gaos between the wall and the board if dot and dabbed / glued, which wouldn't be ideal for noise transfer?

I presume you can cut the insulated side of the board to allow room for wiring and bits of uneven brickwork? Or is the insulated side slightly softer than plasterboard and absorbed small bits of unevenness?

You can chase the wall a fraction and then overboard, or recess the insulation with a Stanley.

The insulated plasterboard is adhesived on - foam spray stuff, not dot and dabbed (or doesn't need to be dot and dabbed). I've got next to no gap between wall and board.

I went insulated plasterboard route (as did -mason, look up his posts) because I didn't want the battens to make a cold bridge.

Noise wise, nothing will really have a major impact other than proper sound insulation.

 

[DanTheMan]

You can chase the wall a fraction and then overboard, or recess the insulation with a Stanley.

The insulated plasterboard is adhesived on - foam spray stuff, not dot and dabbed (or doesn't need to be dot and dabbed). I've got next to no gap between wall and board.

I went insulated plasterboard route (as did -mason, look up his posts) because I didn't want the battens to make a cold bridge.

Noise wise, nothing will really have a major impact other than proper sound insulation.

In that case it sounds like insulated plasterboard is what I'll do. Where did you get yours? It all seems 5x more expensive than normal board but I suppose it's offset nearly by the saving in batten and separate insulation costs.

Also, which adhesive did you use to fix it to the wall?

This route also settles the decision regarding floor first and I'll just board the walls then fit the ply afterwards.

I seem to remember you sealed around your windows when back to brick. I need.to do the same. I was thinking foam, probably the same stuff I'll use around the door frames. The window gaps are only a few mm but I may as well do it now.

 

[Mason-]

In that case it sounds like insulated plasterboard is what I'll do. Where did you get yours? It all seems 5x more expensive than normal board but I suppose it's offset nearly by the saving in batten and separate insulation costs.

Also, which adhesive did you use to fix it to the wall?

This route also settles the decision regarding floor first and I'll just board the walls then fit the ply afterwards.

I seem to remember you sealed around your windows when back to brick. I need.to do the same. I was thinking foam, probably the same stuff I'll use around the door frames. The window gaps are only a few mm but I may as well do it now.

I bought it from Trade Insulations, you'll find it difficult, most of this stuff gets sold to building sites in the pallet load, DIY'ers wanting to buy 2/3/4 sheets means they have to break a pallet, delivery is more expensive etc etc. Either way we get shafted.

I think @dlockers sourced a lot of his second hand through fb marketplace (I think you get a lot of builders selling left overs from job sites). I used Kingspan K118, it uses Phenolic foam instead of PIR foam, it is marginally better than PIR mm for mm but you pay a premium. Because I wanted to lose as little room space as possible that's why I went for the Phenolic.

For the PU adhesive I've used two types: Illbruck PU010 panel adhesive with a gun, and also Soudal PU Adhesive in the 'genius gun' cans. Both are fine, thought the whole 'foam gun' thing was a bit overrated, and despite cleaning the gun out after every use it still jammed up after doing one room, so I've just stuck with the Soudal stuff. Use the PU Adhesive to stick it, and then use normal insulation foam for gaps.

Remember as well, you are supposed to put in some mechanical fixings for fire regs, I think it is only 2 per board, check with your building control officer. The PU adhesive is more than enough to hold it up, the mechanical are just in the case of a fire, the foam + adhesive melt, the boards fall off the wall. So that's what the mechanical fixings are for, to stop the PB falling off the wall and blocking exits in a fire.

This brochure is class: https://www.insulationshop.co/image/catalog/pdf/Kingspan/New/kingspan_kooltherm_k118_datasheet.pdf tells you all the U values based on depth and wall construction, and if you scroll down shows you methods of installation.


Edit: here's a link to my post where I detailed installing the insulation board: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...ou-done-today.18433753/page-134#post-36865022

The hardest part for me was I have a little bit of a sloped ceiling, so mitering the board to fit tight to that is the hardest, if your wall meets your ceiling square then it'll be a piece of cake.

 

[Mason-]

By the way I deliberately did not put any sockets on the insulated plasterboard walls. I'm probably being overly cautious but I do not want to create a very small area where it is colder, I don't want condensation to form inside the backbox of the sockets, so I put all of my electricals on internal walls. I have read cases of people using insulation (battens + insulation or insulated boards) with metal backboxes and getting a lot of water forming inside the backbox from condensation.

Probably wouldn't be an issue with sufficiently deep insulation (so that there is some behind the backbox), or if you used plastic backboxes instead of steel.

 

[dlockers]

In that case it sounds like insulated plasterboard is what I'll do. Where did you get yours? It all seems 5x more expensive than normal board but I suppose it's offset nearly by the saving in batten and separate insulation costs.

Also, which adhesive did you use to fix it to the wall?

This route also settles the decision regarding floor first and I'll just board the walls then fit the ply afterwards.

I seem to remember you sealed around your windows when back to brick. I need.to do the same. I was thinking foam, probably the same stuff I'll use around the door frames. The window gaps are only a few mm but I may as well do it now.

Yeah it is a bunch more expensive but you offset it quickly (studwork, PIR boards). I got mine from a local builders merchant. They have been a godsend to me, but I am not sure how much I won the lottery vs. how many merchants operate in this way. My original intent was to buy it from Wickes as their delivery costs are super low for sheet material (£7 or free over a certain amount). The boards were 3x the cost tho. No idea how I got mine for so cheap tbh - think I paid £33/ea.

You'll want foam to glue the boards on:

Soudal Genius Gun Plasterboard Adhesive Foam

Soudal Plasterboard Adhesive Foam is a fast curing replacement for traditional mortar adhesives. Use it to fill cavities and for bonding plasterboard to walls. You'll find that this foam is suitable for use on all common materials such as concrete, stone, plaster and wood.The adhesive comes...

www.toolstation.com

Get more than you need and return it. I haven't bought a gun yet but that's because I pretty much get through a full tin in a single job so don't waste any time trying to keep it clean.

For around the windows I used:

Soudal Genius Gun Low Expansion Insulation Foam

• Quick setting • High insulation values • High linear yield (more metres) • Reusable for up to 6 weeks • Interior and exterior useProfessional quality insulation foam with high insulation values, both thermal and acoustic. The foam has minimal expansion, providing a greater linear yield...

www.toolstation.com

I used the patented @Mason- method and mitred the inner with a larger overhang, then cut it back:

 

[Mason-]

Don't think I've seen photos of yours done, really nice job scribing to that curved part of your ceiling. Also I didn't mitre in the reveal, just butted, I think your way is better.

 

[DanTheMan]

Cheers for all the advice. I'll be pleased if I can get it looking anything like those jobs.

Daft question but I can use insulated plasterboard on all internal walls, including party walls, walls adjoining other rooms etc?

Also, this feels like a stupid thing to consider but what about using plasterboard adhesive to overboard the ceiling, then screws / fixings once it's adhered to ensure it's secure?

 

[Mason-]

You can use it on internal walls, not sure why you would though. On party walls if you're plan is to do it for sound purposes, I don't think foam made for acoustics is the same as foam made for thermals. So might not be the best solution.

I'd just use screws on the ceiling, if you're thinking of doing it yourself, find a tool hire place locally and rent a board lifter (I'm billy no mates, brother had back surgery and my wife is pregnant so I had to board the ceiling solo). I got one locally for £50 for a weekend which was enough for me to do what I needed to do and meant I could use full size boards (less joints).

 

[dlockers]

Cheers for all the advice. I'll be pleased if I can get it looking anything like those jobs.

Daft question but I can use insulated plasterboard on all internal walls, including party walls, walls adjoining other rooms etc?

Also, this feels like a stupid thing to consider but what about using plasterboard adhesive to overboard the ceiling, then screws / fixings once it's adhered to ensure it's secure?

The adhesive is enough to stick the board but you will want plasterboard screws into joists to hold it in place whilst the glue dries.

Ulti-Mate II Stick-Fit Bugle Head Drywall Screw Black Phosphate

These state-of-the-art Ulti-Mate drywall screws use a patented Stick-Fit® design to deliver the highest performance when fixing plasterboard to timber batons or metal studs.This Stick-Fit® connection ensures smooth and stable driving, with no wobble and no dropped screws – one-handed...

www.toolstation.com

 

[DanTheMan]

You can use it on internal walls, not sure why you would though. On party walls if you're plan is to do it for sound purposes, I don't think foam made for acoustics is the same as foam made for thermals. So might not be the best solution.

I'd just use screws on the ceiling, if you're thinking of doing it yourself, find a tool hire place locally and rent a board lifter (I'm billy no mates, brother had back surgery and my wife is pregnant so I had to board the ceiling solo). I got one locally for £50 for a weekend which was enough for me to do what I needed to do and meant I could use full size boards (less joints).

Ah ok, I presumed I may as well insulate all the walls but I'm not entirely sure why. So I can just use 12.5mm / 15mm plasterboard for all walls apart from the external wall, and insulated plasterboard on the external wall? That's far cheaper!

I did look around for board lifter hire but everywhere nearby is out of stock. I can always get the Mrs or a mate to hold the boards whilst I screw them in.

The adhesive is enough to stick the board but you will want plasterboard screws into joists to hold it in place whilst the glue dries.

Ulti-Mate II Stick-Fit Bugle Head Drywall Screw Black Phosphate

These state-of-the-art Ulti-Mate drywall screws use a patented Stick-Fit® design to deliver the highest performance when fixing plasterboard to timber batons or metal studs.This Stick-Fit® connection ensures smooth and stable driving, with no wobble and no dropped screws – one-handed...

www.toolstation.com

Probably makes sense to just screw them in then? I doubt the foam is adding anything more than the screws will be doing.

 

[dlockers]

Probably makes sense to just screw them in then? I doubt the foam is adding anything more than the screws will be doing.

Yeah to be fair. I used foam + screwed because I was very anxious about moisture (bathroom) getting in any gaps. This allowed me to seal all the edges.

 

[dlockers]

What state are the walls in to want to cover them in plasterboard tho?

 

[DanTheMan]

What state are the walls in to want to cover them in plasterboard tho?

It's a 1950s house and all the internal brickwork is blue / grey engineering brick, with mortar that looks like Stevie wonder slapped it on.

Weirdly there's the odd red brick that protrudes about 1cm proud of the other brickwork, I have no idea why. I don't know how plasterboarding around that will work?

That's why I was thinking of using insulated board where I can recess the insulating to accommodate. Unless I just cut the board completely at those bits and cover it when it gets skimmed.

 

[FNG]

Under fire regs you are meant to have a mechanical fixing other than just foam anyway, if I remember correctly.

Can you just nock the sticking out bit off th brick? It can't be doing anything!

 

[dlockers]

It's a 1950s house and all the internal brickwork is blue / grey engineering brick, with mortar that looks like Stevie wonder slapped it on.

Weirdly there's the odd red brick that protrudes about 1cm proud of the other brickwork, I have no idea why. I don't know how plasterboarding around that will work?

That's why I was thinking of using insulated board where I can recess the insulating to accommodate. Unless I just cut the board completely at those bits and cover it when it gets skimmed.

Ah interesting. If its stripped back to plaster, and you have protuberances, then dot and dab will be the simplest method. If plaster is solid don't under estimate a basic skim. Or even just lining paper.

Don't aim for instagram perfect walls, they don't exist