Who is in the wrong on this one?

Relentless81 said:
So let me get this straight. Don't enter a roundabout next to a bus, van, lorry in fact lets just try not to enter roundabouts next to any vehicle in case they cant be arsed to check their mirrors or indicate and change lane. Instead, try and stay in the gap between other vehicles that are in the next lane whilst also navigating the roundabout. Got it. See what's being suggested there? Bit daft in reality isn't it.
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This is belt and braces the best way to avoid any RTI on a roundabout yes. There is a difference between being in the right and doing the best you can to avoid being involved in something thats not your "fault"
 
Relentless81 said:
So let me get this straight. Don't enter a roundabout next to a bus, van, lorry in fact lets just try not to enter roundabouts next to any vehicle in case they cant be arsed to check their mirrors or indicate and change lane. Instead, try and stay in the gap between other vehicles that are in the next lane whilst also navigating the roundabout. Got it. See what's being suggested there? Bit daft in reality isn't it.
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That's about the size of it. It's all about driving defensively.
 
Dis86 said:
I know. But what I'm saying is to me, to show you were going straight that is the action I'd take. Not indicating I'd take as the OP doing what he did.
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Thats arse about face.
Going straight there is no need to indicate apart from to indicate to exit.
Going right you should indicate right, as per the highway code.

The road markings supercede the normal layout that you get into the right to turn right. They don't mean you ignore anything else associated with turning right, they just mean your allowed to not follow the normal lane requirements.
 
Buses fault, he changed lane without indicating/looking and to top it off he didn't even need to change lanes as he could take his exit from either lol.
 
The bus driver should have definitely been more observant, but I would have mitigated this situation by indicating right and also either hanging back slightly or getting ahead of the bus. I don't like to sit right next to large vehicles on roundabouts/junctions, for this reason.
 
Howard said:
The bus driver should have definitely been more observant, but I would have mitigated this situation by indicating right and also either hanging back slightly or getting ahead of the bus. I don't like to sit right next to large vehicles on roundabouts/junctions, for this reason.
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Exactly how I would have gone about it.

These roundabout layouts are bad, they give people the impression they are in the "right". It would be far better if they merged the left and right lanes as they passed the straight on exit (ie on the roundabout) rather than leaving the two lanes to try to merge on exit. People in the left lane feel they have "right of way" people in the right lane feel "i got in the right lane to turn right, those ******* in the left trying to jump the queue". The road layout promotes bad driving and entitlement.
 
The layout is the layout though, that's the way its marked out. If you change lanes you check your mirrors and you indicate, if he did that I would have let him in no issue what so ever.

What he did was dangerous, If I wasn't aware of him and his intentions I could been in a very serious accident, I could have had my one year old son in the car too thankfully I didn't. Its not just the fact he changed lanes either he did it carelessly and without thought or consideration for anyone else.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Thats arse about face.
Going straight there is no need to indicate apart from to indicate to exit.
Going right you should indicate right, as per the highway code.

The road markings supercede the normal layout that you get into the right to turn right. They don't mean you ignore anything else associated with turning right, they just mean your allowed to not follow the normal lane requirements.
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Lol.

To me there are three possible directional options. Motorway. OPs turn off. Move lanes.

There are three signalling options. Left. Right. Neither.

Left equates to m.way.

Neither to what the OP did.

Right to move lanes.

Thats the logical way to do things. Still think OP did the correct thing and the bus driver didnt.
 
I know it well.
So you were coming off M60 anticlockwise? From memory you used to have to come off at that junction and go straight to get to the Chester road lights from the M60 but that is no longer the case
I'm not sure why you wouldn't be in the right lane though since you are turning right (if I understand correctly)
 
Dis86 said:
Lol.

To me there are three possible directional options. Motorway. OPs turn off. Move lanes.

There are three signalling options. Left. Right. Neither.

Left equates to m.way.

Neither to what the OP did.

Right to move lanes.

Thats the logical way to do things. Still think OP did the correct thing and the bus driver didnt.
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There is no, three possible at all.
Turning right you indicate right, then you cancel this, and as you prepare to exit you indicate left.
You don't select one and thats it.

Going straight on you join without indicating and then indicate left as you prepare to exit. This is probably the most often ignored part of the highway code going.

Its not logical at all and its not what the highway code says for a general roundabout right turn.

On a normal road your indicators give your indication you are changing lanes, on a roundabout they are used to indicate your intended direction of travel initially. Then once on the round about its best to cancel indication until you are making lane changes, and finally to indicate as you plan to exit.
Hence you change them as your negotiate the roundabout, not select one and thats it.
 
Just my experience with something similar but with an insurance point of view the lines on the road are law. Doesn't matter common courtesy or whatever, whoever makes the change maneuver is at fault. A few months ago my father had a similar issue here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/searc...eld/@53.3376128,-1.4434237,130m/data=!3m1!1e3

He was driving south on the A6102 dual carriageway in the left lane. He was on "autopilot" (not Tesla :p) and forgotten he was going right. So he indicated to turn right from the left lane as he was aware it leads you around. As you can predict, someone going straight on from the right lane of the dual carriageway went into the side of him. Insurance put 100% fault on the other driver because they are making the change maneuver. Ethnically i don't think that was right, should really have been a 50/50 and its a bit of a dick move to turn right from that lane but there you go. It renders the inside lane of this roundabout very dangerous in terms of liability given the way people use it to exit and join the dual carriageway. Imo it should be changed.
 
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ArchAnGeL said:
I know it well.
So you were coming off M60 anticlockwise? From memory you used to have to come off at that junction and go straight to get to the Chester road lights from the M60 but that is no longer the case
I'm not sure why you wouldn't be in the right lane though since you are turning right (if I understand correctly)
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Correct, although no one would bother using this exit for Chester Road its easier just to take the next exit. I'm not in the right hand lane because it has traffic, the left lane is clear and I am a believer in utilising free road space, also I don't have to change lane in the left lane where as the right lane you do.

Gammawolf said:
Just my experience with something similar but with an insurance point of view the lines on the road are law. Doesn't matter common courtesy or whatever, whoever makes the change maneuver is at fault. A few months ago my father had a similar issue here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/searc...eld/@53.3376128,-1.4434237,130m/data=!3m1!1e3

He was driving south on the A6102 dual carriageway in the left lane. He was on "autopilot" (not Tesla :p) and forgotten he was going right. So he indicated to turn right from the left lane as he was aware it leads you around. As you can predict, someone going straight on from the right lane of the dual carriageway went into the side of him. Insurance put 100% fault on the other driver because they are making the change maneuver. Ethnically i don't think that was right, should really have been a 50/50 and its a bit of a dick move to turn right from that lane but there you go. It renders the inside lane of this roundabout very dangerous in terms of liability given the way people use it to exit and join the dual carriageway. Imo it should be changed.
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Interesting, thanks. Like I said in the OP its a strange roundabout, not normal configuration of lanes but the end of the day they are exactly that and they are clearly marked.
 
Gammawolf said:
Just my experience with something similar but with an insurance point of view the lines on the road are law. Doesn't matter common courtesy or whatever, whoever makes the change maneuver is at fault. A few months ago my father had a similar issue here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/searc...eld/@53.3376128,-1.4434237,130m/data=!3m1!1e3

He was driving south on the A6102 dual carriageway in the left lane. He was on "autopilot" (not Tesla :p) and forgotten he was going right. So he indicated to turn right from the left lane as he was aware it leads you around. As you can predict, someone going straight on from the right lane of the dual carriageway went into the side of him. Insurance put 100% fault on the other driver because they are making the change maneuver. Ethnically i don't think that was right, should really have been a 50/50 and its a bit of a dick move to turn right from that lane but there you go. It renders the inside lane of this roundabout very dangerous in terms of liability given they way people use it to exit and join the dual carriageway. Imo it should be changed.
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When joining your supposed to give way, the official terminology is "give way to traffic from the right at a roundabout", once your on a roundabout even if your in the wrong lane and indicating incorrectly you still have right of way over traffic joining.

We all do the wrong thing, we roll up to roundabouts to last second stop or to join based on a quick assessment of time to join, we are all collisions waiting to happen if we come across a driver doing the wrong thing.
 
I would say busses fault as well.

TBFH most roundabouts in this country are either badly designed, or have bad road markings causing confusion for others. Unfortunately the 6to12 left hand lane, 12to6 right hand lane, doesn't apply to all roundabouts.
 
Had there of been a collision the bus would have been at fault, no dispute

However, did the OP increase the risk of that happening I would also say no dispute.

I just asked my mate at work (mid 50s so years of experience) this scenario over a sarnie.
His response "if I approached that in the left lane I would indicate right as i joined, then cancel around the first exit. At that point if a bus was on my right I would either get in front of it or fall behind it."

The big question to me is will the OP change his behaviour as a result of this, and in the same scenario would he do anything differently.

Always assume other drivers are idiots and about to do something stupid and then act accordingly. Its surprising how often they prove you correct ;)
 
Bus driver was in the wrong, however you could have read the situation better and either made your intentions clearer or not put yourself in danger by pulling ahead or behind. I would think of it as lesson learnt and take the right lane in the future :)
 
Mmm, in my opinion you were both wrong. Bus shouldn't have changed lanes until it was clear, you should have signalled your intentions. If you think that continuing round in the left lane requires no indication, then every spiral roundabout would have to be removed from the road.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
When joining your supposed to give way, the official terminology is "give way to traffic from the right at a roundabout", once your on a roundabout even if your in the wrong lane and indicating incorrectly you still have right of way over traffic joining.

We all do the wrong thing, we roll up to roundabouts to last second stop or to join based on a quick assessment of time to join, we are all collisions waiting to happen if we come across a driver doing the wrong thing.
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It wasn't joining the roundabout, it was exiting in a similar scenario to what OP described by effectively turning right from the left lane (The potential collision point is slightly earlier as the other party is intending to go straight instead of right). The below shows it better. Blue was my father, red was the other party. The solid lines were the directions of travel. I added the dotted blue as 99.9% of people use the roundabout as a continuation of the dual carriageway.

h7nPAPk.jpg
 
Yeah your father shouldn't be using the roundabout in the way that he did unless the road was clearly marked that he should. That part of the left hand lane is for the people coming from the right of the picture to go straight ahead, not for people coming from the top to turn right.

The bus also shouldn't be taking that route, however traffic can join from farther round the roundabout and exit into lane 2 of that carriageway from where the bus came from, so from that drawing, your father was in the wrong.
 
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