Who owns the code?

theMAD2 · 4 Jul 2006 at 23:36

I just wondered, if I write some code as part of a project at uni, can I post the code on my website as if it's mine? I did write it anyway, lol. I'm just sure I heard somewhere that it's copyrighted to the uni.

Thanks

jon86 · 4 Jul 2006 at 23:44

All universities I have read and heard about have a clause (or get you to sign one as part of registration) saying that you transfer all rights to any code you produce as part of your degree to the university.

The best thing to do is to ask your university.

fini · 4 Jul 2006 at 23:44

if it's for a uni project - or made using uni equipment then usually the IP's owned by the uni - check with your individual uni though as policy does differ from place to place.

fini

theMAD2 · 4 Jul 2006 at 23:46

Ok, probably best I do ask then

Thought it might be complex. It's just some Javascript I've written for form validation, image gallery etc. I want to use it for some tutorials on my site. Can't see why they would mind.

Thanks

Slime101 · 5 Jul 2006 at 08:49

You wrote it, its yours.

The uni has no legal claim to it, they didnt write it so they dont own the IP despite their claims to own everything you do and think whilst being a student.

Beepcake · 5 Jul 2006 at 09:13

Slime101 said:
You wrote it, its yours.

The uni has no legal claim to it, they didnt write it so they dont own the IP despite their claims to own everything you do and think whilst being a student.

If you sign something to say they own the IPR as part of the uni terms, then they own the IPR

Just the same as companies doing it.. otherwise we'd have Dave and John's Office 2003 Pro

Visage · 5 Jul 2006 at 09:20

Slime101 said:
You wrote it, its yours.

The uni has no legal claim to it, they didnt write it so they dont own the IP despite their claims to own everything you do and think whilst being a student.

Wrong.

Universities, like most commercial enterprises, will insist that all IP is allocated to them prior to its production.

GOCP · 5 Jul 2006 at 09:25

Sometimes it's "co-owned" by yourself and the university - check the small print. However, I can't remember ever stoping any of our students posting thier code on thier own websites

Cuchulain · 5 Jul 2006 at 09:30

It's only javascript, just change a couple of the variable names and stick it online.

pinkegobox · 5 Jul 2006 at 09:59

The university _really_ won't care what you do with it tbh. I'm sure some people have gone on to sell their third year projects etc. My project tutor originally said any code I produced would be open-source i.e. available for free if anyone wanted it. However, that's a non-issue as my project was pants and no one would want it

Beepcake · 5 Jul 2006 at 10:16

The issue isn't whether they care, or whether they exercise any rights of IPR, it's who owns the IPR. I really don't think they'll have an issue with it, so i'd just wing an email to someone vaguely important asking if it's ok.

Slime101 · 5 Jul 2006 at 10:47

You see the thing is, they have no right to say while you are a student everything you produce is ours, and it wouldnt stand up for toffee. If you produce it, you own it, not the uni - they didnt write it, make it or think it up, therefore they done own it, regardless of their desire to control everything.

Its simply a way that they like to exercise their power, just in case they get a really good student who comes up with somthing good, allowing them to attempt to claim it theirs, well its not and the more people who challenge universities about their crap policies and controlling attempts the better.

Beepcake · 5 Jul 2006 at 11:17

Slime101 said:
You see the thing is, they have no right to say while you are a student everything you produce is ours, and it wouldnt stand up for toffee. If you produce it, you own it, not the uni - they didnt write it, make it or think it up, therefore they done own it, regardless of their desire to control everything.

Its simply a way that they like to exercise their power, just in case they get a really good student who comes up with somthing good, allowing them to attempt to claim it theirs, well its not and the more people who challenge universities about their crap policies and controlling attempts the better.

Sorry, that's just plain wrong. IPR can be owned by an employer/institution if you sign something to say so; regardless of whether it's entirely your work.

IPR is a bit useless though, as long as you change a 'reasonable' amount of the code you can get round it.

MrWhippy · 5 Jul 2006 at 14:38

IPR can be owned by an employer, yeah fair enough as their end of the bargain is to pay employees wages.

but the uni don't pay the students to be there, in fact, the students are customers, buying an education from the uni. i'd be suprised if any uni could legally claim IPR on work done by fee paying students. it may well be the case they can claim IPR on the work of the staff and researchers (and funded PhDs).

and a clause in the registration documents does not necesarily give them any legal ownership.

toString · 5 Jul 2006 at 14:44

Cuchulain said:
It's only javascript, just change a couple of the variable names and stick it online.

Haha that's the university way of thinking!

robmiller · 5 Jul 2006 at 15:39

Slime101 said:
You see the thing is, they have no right to say while you are a student everything you produce is ours, and it wouldnt stand up for toffee. If you produce it, you own it, not the uni - they didnt write it, make it or think it up, therefore they done own it, regardless of their desire to control everything.

Its simply a way that they like to exercise their power, just in case they get a really good student who comes up with somthing good, allowing them to attempt to claim it theirs, well its not and the more people who challenge universities about their crap policies and controlling attempts the better.

That's not true at all :/ If you sign a contract when starting university that all code you produce belongs to them, how on earth would it "not stand up for toffee"? It's iron-clad and has a bucket-load of precedent.

Take this, from Carnegie-Mellon's IP policy:

When the university provides funds or facilities for a particular project to the extent of substantial use, it may also choose to designate itself as sponsor of that work. The university may declare itself the owner of intellectual property resulting from said work. In such cases the university must specify in advance the disposition of any intellectual property rights arising from the project.

Perfectly legal and perfectly justified.

MrWhippy · 5 Jul 2006 at 15:55

robmiller said:
Take this, from Carnegie-Mellon's IP policy:
...

well now first off, them stating a policy does not make it law.

and secondly, if their claim to fair ownership is their own financial sponsorship (funds and/or facilities) of the work, i'd imagine a fee paying student could easily claim the same.

Beansprout · 5 Jul 2006 at 16:48

MrWhippy said:
well now first off, them stating a policy does not make it law.

and secondly, if their claim to fair ownership is their own financial sponsorship (funds and/or facilities) of the work, i'd imagine a fee paying student could easily claim the same.

It's not necessarily just a policy, though, it's a contract. Info from a uni closer to home is some good reading

robmiller · 5 Jul 2006 at 17:16

MrWhippy said:
well now first off, them stating a policy does not make it law.

It's a contract, it can state (within the broad strokes of reason) whatever it likes. If it says "by coming to this uni you will pay us £500 a month for the rest of your life" and you sign it, it's valid.

MrWhippy · 5 Jul 2006 at 17:56

robmiller said:
If it says "by coming to this uni you will pay us £500 a month for the rest of your life" and you sign it, it's valid.

, no it's not, not necesarily at any rate. a contract is an agreement, nothing more. it can be verbal or written down.
true, it can say absolutely anything. but just because a contract is agreed (in writing, with signatures etc) does not make it legally enforceable.
Not all agreements are enforceable.

it's quite possible to form a legally binding contract which contains some terms which are unenforceable.

to be fair until someone takes a situation like this to the courts we don't really know.

i still suspect that as UK students are now self financing, they would have a legal claim to the IPR on their own work, but only the courts can decide.

i suppose a student could attach a GNU licence to all submitted code. do you think that the uni's would still have a claim if they did that?