why are home carers so under valued. carers allowance moan.

[GAC]

ignoring the care industry im talking about full time carers at home, who get carers allowance.

i have been caring for my mother since 2017 so 4 years now and to be honest i'v had it with the way politicians and some members of the general public view what i and many others do.

received my yearly joke of a letter explaining how much of a increase i would be getting in benefits this year and to my surprise carers allowance is going up £0.35p a week, and income support (there to make up to the min "the law" says i can live off) is going down £0.35p, so £0.00 increase for the year as a whole.

according to the dwp this figure takes in to account inflation, so i must be living in some parallel world of no inflation on anything, but im not. my home phone and broadband is due to jump up £3 a month in may and also my mobile phone is due to rise this year as well, and that doesn't take in to account things like transport costs going up and other bits and bobs like food.

currently waiting on a reply from my MP over this and iv asked him to show how this magical figure is worked out just so i know the thinking behind it, because the dwp flat out refuses to state this to anyone it seems. im not expecting a £50 a week raise or anything like that, but last years total raise was £1.90 a week and the year before £0.80 a week. to get nothing at all has finally pushed me enough to vent about it.

just had enough with mp's and various celebs and others singing the praises of carers (and the nhs as well) and then when it comes to getting actual help be it financial or other no one wants to know.

anyways back to being on hold trying to get a covid vaccination sorted out.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I didn't get a payrise at work this near, no one did, not even cost of living.

 

[Helen Barber]

Because government know, family would always do it, even if there wasn't an allowance

 

[robfosters]

I didn't get a payrise at work this near, no one did, not even cost of living.

That has no relevance whatsoever

 

[danielanthony]

The government is trillions in debt and yet they're still not spending enough.

 

[Werewolf]

Because government know, family would always do it, even if there wasn't an allowance

This unfortunately.

The government knows people will care for relatives and even though if they doubled the carers allowance and income support they gave them they'd still be saving a fortune on if a properly paid carer was coming in, they won't up it.

I was talking to some friends a while back who pointed out how many of the benefits have allowances/levels in them that basically haven't changed in 30+ years.

IIRC you have to be a carer for a minimum of 35 (or is it 40?) hours a week to get carers allowance, which IIRC puts the compensation you receive at ~£4 an hour (between income support and carers allowance), whilst if you pay to have someone from the council come in it's usually a minimum of £15 an hour, often more, and you can't earn more than a minimal amount whilst claiming it (and for many there is no time left to earn any extra).
In reality a lot of carers are effectively working 60-100+ hours a week for what is IS/JSA.

If the government paid minimum wage for family carers (and classed it as an actual occupation/job) it would cost a fortune and maybe open some eyes up to how many people are working what is to all intents and purposes a full time job, for what is basically income support plus pennies, and if people didn't do the caring for family it would cost the government an absolute fortune.

I was caring for my mother for over two years, alongside both my brother and father and it was literally 24 hours a day with each of us basically doing 12 hours a day* with no break (we had one 4 day respite), until she got bad enough that she ended up having to go into hospital for 3 months and then a home, so I have a massive amount of sympathy for those that are caring for family. In our case the stress and lack of rest had a massively adverse affect on our health (dad for example had a TIA a week or so after she went into hospital), and we're still recovering from it nearly 3 years later, so I can also see exactly how and why carers snap if they're doing it for years with little chance of any improvement.

I didn't get a payrise at work this near, no one did, not even cost of living.

I suspect your hourly wages is rather higher though to begin with, and has probably increased significantly faster than carers allowance



*She often needed two of us at once to help her, sometimes 3, and even when it was just one of us we'd have to swap out every few hours to get some rest/take a breather (and not lose our ****) but be available.

 

[Werewolf]

The government is trillions in debt and yet they're still not spending enough.

The government has been treating carers as a joke for decades, IIRC there have been calls for them to be better compensated/looked after or at least recognised for what they do for 25+ years in much better times than now.

The difference is that with covid a lot of the clubs and facilities that helped ease the burden of the family carers have gone.

 

[Andrew_McP]

We're allowed to earn up to about £120 a week on top the the £67 though. I could do that easily as long as I tied my mother to her chair so she didn't get up to any mischief while I was at work. So I'm deliberately depriving myself of income... they should probably withdraw the £66 in protest at my blatant disregard for taxpayer largesse.

Actually I do have a fair bit of sympathy with successive governments on this. I seriously think that families ought to look after their own unless there's simply no other option available; the State/taxpayer can't ever afford to replace the old social structures which have been eroded by modern life and, often, raised living standard expectations. There's no social care crisis IMO, but there's definitely a family care crisis... though obviously that's a gross oversimplification.

Anyway, Carer's Allowance is a fairly token gesture for being on duty 24/7/365, but there are several million folk receiving it, so I don't think there's the faintest chance of it changing. The person being cared for will always receive the bulk of any entitlements, and this has to be factored in too. My mother's dementia gets her £89 Attendance Allowance per week, so that's part of the messy care cost equation.

Bottom line: I agree with you, emotionally. But my rational head says there's no money for it.

[By the way, you'll probably have noticed, but just in case, as of this week we're eligible for the covid jab.]

The difference is that with covid a lot of the clubs and facilities that helped ease the burden of the family carers have gone.

Indeed. I initially dreaded the local dementia group. I only took Mum because she seemed to enjoy it. But I grew to enjoy it too... simply because caring can be a lonely business, even if you're an antisocial git like me.

 

[GAC]

iv just gotten the grumps with this years total lack of a token raise, especially when you see some of the rumours due in the budget next week, more eat out take away money, fuel duty frozen for the umpteenth year, cheaper booze in pubs Oo but yeah asking for a bit as a carer and you're open to abuse it seems.

yeah got booked in for a covid jab now i have a two week or so wait for an appointment.

as for earning money every time iv asked for help with how it would effect my benefits like council tax you can hear the dwp robot on the other end physically twitch and then parrot "everyone's circumstances are different i couldn't say" same with if i got a weeks work somewhere and if it would just affect the week, month or would it go against my yearly possibly benefits. same answer again about circumstances, seems giving a straight clear answer to help people isnt a thing for the dwp.

then you add on fun things like having no social life or personal life due to having sod all money or the ability to be able to do stuff without having to plan for who you care for.

and of course the fun side of watching who you care for get worse, my mother had a stroke last year and has been iffy the past couple of weeks just generally ill, but every time she's off colour it hits her that little bit harder and takes that bit longer to get going again.

but mustn't grumble as im on a jolly rolling in it with benefits apparently. its easy life not having to work for money. for good measure im probably about £50k+ out of pocket being a career give or take compared to what i actually get in benefits.

like i said im not expecting £50 a week extra but something would be a start now especially with all the money thats been sloshing about the past 12 months.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

iv just gotten the grumps with this years total lack of a token raise, especially when you see some of the rumours due in the budget next week, more eat out take away money, fuel duty frozen for the umpteenth year, cheaper booze in pubs Oo but yeah asking for a bit as a carer and you're open to abuse it seems.

yeah got booked in for a covid jab now i have a two week or so wait for an appointment.

as for earning money every time iv asked for help with how it would effect my benefits like council tax you can hear the dwp robot on the other end physically twitch and then parrot "everyone's circumstances are different i couldn't say" same with if i got a weeks work somewhere and if it would just affect the week, month or would it go against my yearly possibly benefits. same answer again about circumstances, seems giving a straight clear answer to help people isnt a thing for the dwp.

then you add on fun things like having no social life or personal life due to having sod all money or the ability to be able to do stuff without having to plan for who you care for.

and of course the fun side of watching who you care for get worse, my mother had a stroke last year and has been iffy the past couple of weeks just generally ill, but every time she's off colour it hits her that little bit harder and takes that bit longer to get going again.

but mustn't grumble as im on a jolly rolling in it with benefits apparently. its easy life not having to work for money. for good measure im probably about £50k+ out of pocket being a career give or take compared to what i actually get in benefits.

like i said im not expecting £50 a week extra but something would be a start now especially with all the money thats been sloshing about the past 12 months.

The only options are that you get other family to help out so you all take turns and then you can at least work part time or something.

If you earn income yes it affects your entitlements but I'll tell you this you are always better off earning more than not and just receiving benefits it's designed that way for a reason. After you hit a certain threshold for every £1 you earn they deduct like 40p or something from your benefits. That's after the threshold though so every £1 up to that point you keep the full £1 after that point your 60p better off. So you don't need to phone DWP for an answer there it is but it's extremely complex and depends on various factors so that's why they never give a straight answer on the phone.

The only other option is your mum goes into care. Let the government take care of her. Then you can go and work and possibly take her home every weekend to be with you.

I'm trying to give you constructive advice here as emailing MP you may as well just have smashed your head against a brick wall.

My family cared for my mum for 3 decades between us (I was the eldest child and only 12 years old). She got the bulk of any benefits and only the main carer was entitled to benefits and because they had income wasn't entitled to anything as a result which is shocking as well but that's how things are.

So we did it ourselves and never got a penny. Which is the same in majority of countries tbh. If you and your mum were in Romania, Zimbabwe, India, china, Thailand, any former Soviet Union country how much do you think you would get? So this country cares a lot more than others unfortunately it is what it is and your only hope for increased income is what I have suggested. Getting help with the care or putting her into care. We decided not to do that and I'm glad we did but it wasn't easy far from it and it took a huge toll on all of us and we only got a break and so did she when her body could no longer cope, she died young but at least she always had her family so I know that it's unfathomable to even think of putting someone you love into care but sometimes if you cannot cope it's the only option.

Good luck. Like I say I've been there since the age of 12.

 

[Uther]

The only options are that you get other family to help out so you all take turns and then you can at least work part time or something.

If you earn income yes it affects your entitlements but I'll tell you this you are always better off earning more than not and just receiving benefits it's designed that way for a reason. After you hit a certain threshold for every £1 you earn they deduct like 40p or something from your benefits. That's after the threshold though so every £1 up to that point you keep the full £1 after that point your 60p better off.

I believe after the threshold they deduct 67p from benefits for every pound you earn, something even IDS wasn't happy about...

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I believe after the threshold they deduct 67p from benefits for every pound you earn, something even IDS wasn't happy about...

You could be right it's not something I've looked at in like 10 years.

However the gist is your always better off working than not working.

 

[tom01]

Genuinely not a troll question, it may be that I do not understand fully but isn't it better for those in such situations to be cared for by the state in facilities such as supported living environments etc so that the carer can continue to not only contribute to the economy through their own taxes paid but to ensure they have a plan in place for their own retirement etc. And also from a mental health perspective they are allowed to lead their own lives? I don't see the benefit of someone being a carer for say 20 years to another when state support could allow for them to be supported whilst also still enabling family members to provide care and welfare in addition? If I got to that condition I wouldn't want my children to waste decades of their lives managing me 24/7 but of course I'd still want contact with them. The only exception I could see to this scenario is for a partner who the day you married or entered in to that state of relationship would be of course unconditionally support.

 

[Uther]

Genuinely not a troll question, it may be that I do not understand fully but isn't it better for those in such situations to be cared for by the state in facilities such as supported living environments etc so that the carer can continue to not only contribute to the economy through their own taxes paid but to ensure they have a plan in place for their own retirement etc. And also from a mental health perspective they are allowed to lead their own lives? I don't see the benefit of someone being a carer for say 20 years to another when state support could allow for them to be supported whilst also still enabling family members to provide care and welfare in addition? If I got to that condition I wouldn't want my children to waste decades of their lives managing me 24/7 but of course I'd still want contact with them. The only exception I could see to this scenario is for a partner who the day you married or entered in to that state of relationship would be of course unconditionally support.

A quick google gives a figure of 5 million carers in the UK, they are given a pittance and told to get on with it. It saves the government an absolute fortune.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Genuinely not a troll question, it may be that I do not understand fully but isn't it better for those in such situations to be cared for by the state in facilities such as supported living environments etc so that the carer can continue to not only contribute to the economy through their own taxes paid but to ensure they have a plan in place for their own retirement etc. And also from a mental health perspective they are allowed to lead their own lives? I don't see the benefit of someone being a carer for say 20 years to another when state support could allow for them to be supported whilst also still enabling family members to provide care and welfare in addition? If I got to that condition I wouldn't want my children to waste decades of their lives managing me 24/7 but of course I'd still want contact with them. The only exception I could see to this scenario is for a partner who the day you married or entered in to that state of relationship would be of course unconditionally support.

Those care facilities will never look after them to the same level you will.

In fact there's been multiple stories in the news and on TV of serial abusers, etc working in them. Would you risk that on a dear family member?

It's very much a personal choice. Just be glad you have never been put in the position to make the choice.

 

[Werewolf]

Those care facilities will never look after them to the same level you will.

Even in the hospital run facilities like my mother went to they can't provide round the clock eyes on care like we did at home.

My mum had basically a useless hip (born dislocated, multiple ops to give some function the last one stopped the pain, but failed in that what was left of some damaged muscle gave up so), we had from memory something like 3 calls from the hospital over 6 weeks explaining she'd tried to get out of bed without any assistance/her crutches (which she'd lost the ability to use safely*) and fallen, which was part of the reason we had to have someone awake/within a few seconds of reaching her when at home (especially when the delirium/hallucinations kicked in).


*One of the first signs she was not right was her breaking her wrist when she tried to stand up holding onto the elbo grip on her crutches, the bit that's hinged, and the crutch slipped out and she fell, fortunately onto her hand rather than hip (for someone who had been using crutches for ~30 years that's a hell of a mistake to make).

 

[GGizmo]

I think its a general attitude the government have towards people who receive benefits. Give them the least amount they can get away with.

When people had to apply for Universal Credit during this lockdown the fact it was very low, people had been complaining for a long time, they suddenly had to boost it by £20. But they never boosted any of the legacy benefits that UC took over from.

 

[lsg1r]

We're allowed to earn up to about £120 a week on top the the £67 though.

Obviously I don't like delving into people's finances/personal stuff but are you only claiming carer's allowance because you can usually claim universal credit on top of it up (still stupidly low amount for the work being done, should be 'equal' to min wage, it's still cheaper than a paid carer) if you fit the criteria of low savings etc

 

[GAC]

snip

im a only child and its just me and my mother here, my father died in 2016, she has local siblings but the closest one will be 83 in april, and her closest sister died of corona a few weeks back. so not like any of them will be rushing to give me a chance to take a break or anything.

as for working yes i would probably be better off, just. what i was looking at trying to do was festival work or a mad month of work for a quick injection of funds but the dwp cant or wont give a straight answer if it would affect what benefits i get for only the time i work or would it get slapped across the years benefits. what i will probably end up doing like many is working cash in hand on and off to try and boost my income people can pull their face at it but until we have a benefits dept that will actually give straight answers and be helpful i just cant be bothered going through the rigmarole of getting a job and then having to wait and see what happens a month or two down the line, and then when not working re applying all over again and waiting another month or so for it to all fire back up, did this when i was claiming jobseekers before my last fulltime job and after a 5 hour shift and actually getting to and from work i wasn't even a fiver better off, was a good few years ago now so id hope its changed but i doubt it. id just like to know so i can work things out exactly before, so i know if it will actually be worth the effort or not.

and yes IF we lived in another country it could possibly be a lot worse but we dont we live in the 5th or 6th richest nation in the world supposedly.

Genuinely not a troll question,

A quick google gives a figure of 5 million carers in the UK, they are given a pittance and told to get on with it. It saves the government an absolute fortune.

read what uther posted tom1, but in short being a carer i save the gov and local authorities thousands a year in care costs, we have a fancy new place near us and its around £1400 a week, and then that's still nowhere near the 1 to 1 care most carers would be providing.

Obviously I don't like delving into people's finances/personal stuff but are you only claiming carer's allowance because you can usually claim universal credit on top of it up (still stupidly low amount for the work being done, should be 'equal' to min wage, it's still cheaper than a paid carer) if you fit the criteria of low savings etc

i get carers and income support, and a portion of the council tax paid for, as we own the house jointly that's it. we are better off than most for sure as the house is paid for so no mortgage or anything on top but seems working and being sensible with you're money just means the gov can ignore you that much more.

as for the income hell i don't mind its not like its not impossible to google this but as of now the dwp and its "the law states the minimum you can live off of" line states i can live on £111.85 a week. like i said the thing that's set me off is the whole 35p raise in carers a week which is just disgusting, and then the way income support drops by 35p a week so il be getting exactly the same for two years.

a couple of years ago when it went up a whole £0.80 a week combined (carers and income support) the council took over half of it in council tax (as the council determine how much council tax benefit you get) stating i was so much better of then the year previous. last year i didn't get charged but who knows what this years council tax bill could bring, with the ability to raise it by 4.9%.

UC is eventually taking over from income support so should in reality be the same exact amount but who knows with the way the dwp works. i did get a letter a while back about switching but when i phoned and asked how exactly it would affect my income, yet again they couldn't/wouldn't say all i got was the same bs line about how my circumstances determine what i can get. even though they know exactly what they are they just wont say until you apply.

 

[Andrew_McP]

you can usually claim universal credit on top of it up

Thanks for the reminder to check on things. But when I committed financial suicide by giving up work for "a few" years to see Mum through her miserable decline, I had no pension savings because I made the (stupid in hindsight) decision to put cash in an ISA instead of trusting Asda's pathetic pension scheme. So I have enough savings to provide me a tiny, tiny pension eventually, or a fair buffer when I try to get back into work, or a huge, huge liability when it comes to claiming benefits!

Life is a learning experience. I can't complain though, we don't pay Council Tax because Mum's exempt and I'm a full time carer living in her home, we have enough spare money to pay a carer for a few hours every week when I need to collect pills etc, I'm low maintenance, and... well, dementia teaches you that money's not what life's about. It certainly helps though, as all those folk struggling in this covid era know all too well. Compared to many, my lot is ridiculously good while Mum's alive. It'll change quickly the moment her suffering's over, but one problem at a time!

being a carer i save the gov and local authorities thousands a year in care costs, we have a fancy new place near us and its around £1400 a week, and then that's still nowhere near the 1 to 1 care most carers would be providing.

Care homes are a really complicated decision to make, especially financially. My big fear was Mum's bungalow sale proceeds disappearing within about three years and her then being at the mercy of whatever the Council could afford. And when folk are in a care home, you're still responsible for organising hospital visits, extra needs & costs within the home, and need to be involved in care decisions. Plus you get to worry about whether all the carers at the home are as conscientious as they might be, whether the owner's driving a Merc in Spain while their staff take home minimum wage, and whether -- like my aunt -- they're going to fall within the first week and break a leg.

There are great care homes around, but there are no guarantees despite the eye-watering costs for dementia care, and the worrying doesn't stop once you decide to flog the family silver and tuck them away 'out of sight'. Plus, of course, during this covid period, having someone in care has been an even greater source of worry.

I should perhaps add that I was only taking home about £280 a week doing a job anyone could do. If I'd been making a more useful contribution to society, or had family of my own to care for, becoming a carer would not have been practical. At least this way I feel like I've done the best for Mum I could, and if I lose control of care at home soon (as feels increasingly likely as she becomes increasingly immobile) the proceeds from her home would more than likely cover her care home fees to end of life.

Only one thing's for certain: getting old is messy, complicated, often very expensive, and... and on Monday I get a taxi to Stoke for my Dad's funeral while the £17 an hour (independent so cheaper than most agencies) carer looks after Mum for a few hours. Has to be a taxi, because -- unlike me -- she can't move Mum on her own, so I can't be away for too long. The only regrets I have at the moment have nothing to do with money and everything to do with choosing to isolate completely to protect Mum from dying alone in hospital, instead of taking a calculated gamble to see him as his health declined. He died alone in hospital, though my brother did almost get there in time.

Be nice to parents if you've still got 'em, folks. Mine weren't perfect, by a very long stretch, but they're still what connects to to that primordial amoeba which first twitched around some deep sea volcanic vent a few billion years ago. That's a special connection even if they didn't get you the Action Man with Eagle Eyes you really wanted, or bought you a terrible Marks & Sparks 'Wrangler style' jacket instead of the real thing in the 70s. What were you thinking, Mum???!!! Not that I'm emotionally scared by that or any<twitch>thing.