Why couldn't there be another tax for NHS / Emergency Services?

[MagicBoy]

If council tax became voluntary you can bet things would turn around very quickly. There is no motivation for them to do anything useful because they get the cash either way.

If Council Tax became voluntary you're going to educate your own children and arrange your own rubbish collection and recycling contract? Under penalty of law for not doing those things.

For a business that gets shafted with doing pretty much everything, they do a decent job in most areas. Tesco and Amazon have got it fine - they just sell ****. Local Gove does a million and one things, most of it a required by legislation. Yet all anyone usually moans about is the bins, education and social services as they're the largest touch points.

 

[Judgeneo]

It all goes into the same pot anyway

 

[One More Solo]

We already get taxed to death. They need to spend it better and get rid of the outsourcing gravy train.

Compare how much tax we pay compared to other developed nations and then it becomes clear why our public services are rubbish. That’s before you even get to the issue of the tax gap and how poorly funded HMRC is to address it.

 

[MagicBoy]

Compare how much tax we pay compared to other developed nations and then it becomes clear why our public services are rubbish. That’s before you even get to the issue of the tax gap and how poorly funded HMRC is to address it.

To be fair if the didn't keep letting off systemic corporate tax dodging like say Vodafone we'd be in a better position.

 

[Judgeneo]

Compare how much tax we pay compared to other developed nations and then it becomes clear why our public services are rubbish. That’s before you even get to the issue of the tax gap and how poorly funded HMRC is to address it.

As a percentage of GDP, the UK collects an average amount of tax compared to other developed nations. Plenty of places collect less, from the top of my head - Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Korea, Singapore, Ireland, Israel, Uruguay, Japan.

 

[Nasher]

If Council Tax became voluntary you're going to educate your own children and arrange your own rubbish collection and recycling contract? Under penalty of law for not doing those things.

For a business that gets shafted with doing pretty much everything, they do a decent job in most areas. Tesco and Amazon have got it fine - they just sell ****. Local Gove does a million and one things, most of it a required by legislation. Yet all anyone usually moans about is the bins, education and social services as they're the largest touch points.

Some people already have to pay extra if they want garden waste collected, so it's already part of the way there. Schools could be funded seperately.

The councils barely do the bare minimum they can get away with. The only time they do anything extra is when elections are coming up.

 

[Surveyor]

Some people already have to pay extra if they want garden waste collected, so it's already part of the way there. Schools could be funded seperately.

The councils barely do the bare minimum they can get away with. The only time they do anything extra is when elections are coming up.

The councils do what they can afford to do.

 

[One More Solo]

To be fair if the didn't keep letting off systemic corporate tax dodging like say Vodafone we'd be in a better position.

Assuming this is the Verizon transaction you’re referring to then it shows a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the facts and legislation to call it systemic corporate tax dodging.

As a percentage of GDP, the UK collects an average amount of tax compared to other developed nations. Plenty of places collect less, from the top of my head - Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Korea, Singapore, Ireland, Israel, Uruguay, Japan.

That’s a bit meaningless in isolation though if you ignore those countries’ public spending as a % of GDP which is inevitably the best blunt measure of how good services are.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

The councils do what they can afford to do.

Our council bought a bank and lost millions. Don’t think they could afford to do it but they did it anyway.

 

[MagicBoy]

Assuming this is the Verizon transaction you’re referring to then it shows a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of the facts and legislation to call it systemic corporate tax dodging.

You assume incorrectly.

I'm thinking of the £6.75bn they dodged from the Mannesmann takeover.

 

[rainbowGuy]

People on the lowest income pay the lowest %. People on the highest income not only pay more (hur dur percentages), but the percentage band is higher to. What you are proposing is essentially a poll tax and we saw how that worked out

Someone on 20k will pay 20% on 8k, or about £1600. Someone on 100k would pay 20% from 12.5k - 50k, and then 40%. Or about £27.5k tax. Over £100k you actually start to LOSE your tax free allowance, so that you get nothing tax free. Mega bucks, £150k+ and you are paying 45% with no tax free allowance.

I think your first statement is more correct than you could ever have imagined...


THEY TUK RRR JURRBBSSS

i know how it works... but 20% on 8k = 1600, but 20% of 100k = 20,000 so they will pay MORE anyway.. wheras in current system them pay 27.5k because of banding...

 

[rainbowGuy]

So do you propose we move everyone onto a 40% bracket so the poor cannot afford to buy anything bar the basics?

Because if we move everyone down to 20% the government would be broke.

Also people who earn more usually aren't the ones doing the hard graft.

The harder you work the lower paid you normally are. CEOs just delegate everything they can below them and then they delegate below them, etc.

the govt wastes so much money as we have seen, not to mention overinflated pay for themselves, 2nd home, expenses and what not - they would have to tighten the belt.. just like i would have to if i had less money.. it doesnt have to be 20% it could be 25% or 30% and increase the allowance for people on lower pay.. its just a suggestion

 

[dl8860]

isn't that literally what national insurance is supposed to be?

Can you remember where you got the idea that this was the case from? It baffles me how many people think this is the case when it's completely wrong. Is it because both NI and NHS have the word national in them?

 

[Deleted User 298457]

i know how it works... but 20% on 8k = 1600, but 20% of 100k = 20,000 so they will pay MORE anyway.. wheras in current system them pay 27.5k because of banding...

I don't get your point. £27.5k is more than £20k...? So current system pays more than what you are proposing. Banding = more tax.

 

[jonneymendoza]

i know how it works... but 20% on 8k = 1600, but 20% of 100k = 20,000 so they will pay MORE anyway.. wheras in current system them pay 27.5k because of banding...

More then that.

They pay 40k mate.

 

[adolf hamster]

Can you remember where you got the idea that this was the case from? It baffles me how many people think this is the case when it's completely wrong. Is it because both NI and NHS have the word national in them?

probably because of the term "insurance"

 

[dl8860]

What's insurance got to do with the NHS?

 

[adolf hamster]

What's insurance got to do with the NHS?

because what do you have in countries that don't provide nationalised health care?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

What's insurance got to do with the NHS?

In this case Insurance means "a thing providing protection against a possible eventuality" and not the insurance you're thinking of with your car or house.
In other words it protects against health, unemployment and being retired.

 

[LeeUK]

Police is already paid for from the ever increasing council tax (read your council tax bill).

Why don't they go after the billionaire tax avoiders and make them pay their fare share of tax to fund the NHS etc.