Why does ATI limit overclocks and Nvidia do not.

[RavenXXX2]

Can someone please explain why ATI very much limit the overclock potential of their cards via the bios, and why does Nvidia not hold back the overclocking potential on their cards via the bios?

Example, all 5870's apart from specialist brands like Asus and MSI have their overclocks limited to 900Mhz which is a measly 50Mhz over the stock clocks.

5850's are worse, these great clocking cards are limited to 775 core through the bios.

Now I know of no recent Nvidia cards that limit overclocks to such low clocks, if there is please point them out.

 

[craig3000]

Not a specialist on the subject but 5850's aren't locked from going over 775?? I used the MSI tool to get over it on a normal HIS 5850 and I didn't touch the BIOS neither does the MSI software itself or do you mean limited through CCC? Either way they (ATI) probably don't want you busting up your card sounds reasonable to me tbh and if you are an uber overclocker that needs 1GHz go out and buy the Asus or MSI?

 

[Martini1991]

"I'm going to set my 5570 to over 9000MHZ".

 

[Broken Hope]

Probably because as far as I know Overdrive is covered by the warranty, so they won't want the limits too high and risk people breaking their cards by setting them too high.

 

[straxusii]

To be honest it sounds like common sense to me.

I agree though the limit on 5870 is a little too low, perhaps 925 or 950. 910 is the max stable o/c on my 5870 without increasing voltage

 

[RavenXXX2]

Not a specialist on the subject but 5850's aren't locked from going over 775?? I used the MSI tool to get over it on a normal HIS 5850 or do you mean limited through CCC? Either way they probably don't want you busting up your card sounds reasonable to me tbh and if you are an uber overclocker than needs 1GHz go out and buy the Asus or MSI?

Yes you can use third party software to bypass the limit but the limit is still set through the bios, and that's your max clock you can set through CCC overdrive. Why have such low overclocks set, Nvidia do not feel the need to set limits and force you to bypass them with third party apps.

 

[craig3000]

Probably because as far as I know Overdrive is covered by the warranty

Overdrive is not covered by warranty, regardless warranty support aren't going to know if you've overclocked at all with overdrive or anything else.

Yes you can use third party software to bypass the limit but the limit is still set through the bios, and that's your max clock you can set through CCC overdrive. Why have such low overclocks set, Nvidia do not feel the need to set limits and force you to bypass them with third party apps.

Ok understood, maybe because it's built in to CCC and pretty much everybody with ati drivers is going to have CCC and it's so damm easy to set a lot of people try and use it, I know that if I was a dumby with computers and it said overclock to whatever the hell you want I'd aim pretty high , there just being more cautious . I don't really think it's a big issue, if your the type of overclocker going for big numbers then downloading other software etc isn't much trouble.

 

[bhavv]

The overclock limits that the card comes with are covered by warranty.

For more overclock limit and voltage, you would normally need to buy either an Asus or MSI card, otherwise void the warranty on other ones by bios flashing them to unlock the OC limits.

Nvidia do not feel the need to set limits and force you to bypass them with third party apps.

Well, the maximum voltage that you can set on the GTX 460 (1.087v) is crappy for the custom cooled versions.

The bioises still need to modified to unlock it up to 1.212v to try to clock them higher than 900 Mhz, so its not like Nvidia are any better.

 

[kylew]

Wow, really raven? Does it really matter? Surely you know anyone who wants to do some mildly serious overclocking will chose to use MSI Afterburner anyway? You haven't come down with a fatal dose of PJS have you?

 

[RavenXXX2]

I have seen 460's do 900Mhz with the max voltage available to them via afterburner and that's a massive overclock, of course if you want to go higher then a mod or bios flash will be required as with any extreme overclocking. If there is a voltage limit, it's for cautionary measures only IMO.

Wow, really raven? Does it really matter? Surely you know anyone who wants to do some mildly serious overclocking will chose to use MSI Afterburner anyway?

Just curious that's all, I was forced to flash my sapphire with an Asus bios to clock past 900Mhz, at the time using the " unofficial clocking method " would cause constant full clocks even when idle so that was no good for me, just seems tight by ATI to limit at all, yet nvidia see no need to limit any overclocking potential.

 

[bhavv]

I have seen 460's do 900Mhz with the max voltage available to them via afterburner and that's a massive overclock, of course if you want to go higher then a mod or bios flash will be required as with any extreme overclocking. If there is a voltage limit, it's for cautionary measures only IMO.

So its ok for Nvidia and not for ATI then? Why?

Going from 0.975v > 1.087v > 1.212v is hardly 'extreme overclocking'.

 

[Mr Krugga]

Because they can.

Pic for the lulz of over 9000.

 

[Jokester]

So its ok for Nvidia and not for ATI then? Why?

Going from 0.975v > 1.087v > 1.212v is hardly 'extreme overclocking'.

ATI, at least in the past (48** series), designed the cards power circuits such that they couldn't cope with absolute full load even at stock. Overclocking obviously increases the risk of hitting this limit and potentially damaging the card.

 

[RavenXXX2]

So its ok for Nvidia and not for ATI then? Why?

Going from 0.975v > 1.087v > 1.212v is hardly 'extreme overclocking'.

It's enough to get you some serous clocks unlike the extra 50Mhz you're limited to with a standard 5870.

 

[bhavv]

ATI, at least in the past (48** series), designed the cards power circuits such that they couldn't cope with absolute full load even at stock. Overclocking obviously increases the risk of hitting this limit and potentially damaging the card.

Oh I know that, I meant with the current range of cards (HD 5000s, GTX 460).

The 55 nm parts werent very good, 4870s were even failing at stock speeds when crossfired (quite a few people had this happen, 120 degrees in just a few minutes of furmark anyone?).

What I meant was that Nvidia cards also limit voltage and overclocks, so why is Raven excusing Nvidia, but blaming ATI for doing the same?

I'm not bothered about OC locks either way, but to blame one company and excuse the other is just ..... well ..... soooo Raven!

It's enough to get you some serous clocks unlike the extra 50Mhz you're limited to with a standard 5870.

Well, it kind of clocked a lot higher in the first place. So if the stock 5870 clock was 750 Mhz instead, you wouldnt have a problem with them then?

If you buy a pre overclocked 800 Mhx GTX 460, and it only overclocks to 850 Mhz, would you be complaining that it only overclocked by 50 Mhz?

 

[DELETED_83755]

I thought anyone who is into overclocking their cards properly would automatically use programs such as MSI afterburner? Regardless of it being ATI/Nvidia.

Lets just game.

 

[RavenXXX2]

How do Nvidia limit overclocks? you have to draw the line at max voltage requirements some where, as said you have well enough leeway with Nvidia volts to get a massive overclock, what would you need any more volts for that would probably flake out the core anyway, point is ATI limit overclocking drastically through the bios and Nvidia do not, for what reason?

 

[Jayster]

It's enough to get you some serous clocks unlike the extra 50Mhz you're limited to with a standard 5870.

Why compare two cards why not compare the whole line up? Also to your question im pretty sure they dont want people to blow the arse out of their card with an included oc'ing tool

 

[bhavv]

How do Nvidia limit overclocks? you have to draw the line at max voltage requirements some where, as said you have well enough leeway with Nvidia volts to get a massive overclock, what would you need any more volts for that would probably flake out the core anyway, point is ATI limit overclocking drastically through the bios and Nvidia do not, for what reason?

Nvidia GTX 460 - max voltage allowed 1.087v
ATI HD 5000 - max voltage allowed = 1.35v.

ATI HD 5770 / 5850 / 5870 on air - around 1000 Mhz easilly possible out of the box with an unlocked version (MSI or Asus).

Nvidia GTX 460 - Around 800 - 900 Mhz possible out of the box, and to reach the higher limits you have to get a really lucky chip.

I have to disagree, you dont get anywhere near enough leeway with Nvidias stock limits, and ATIs limits are nowhere near as drastic as Nvidias are (providing that you buy a pre unlocked version, which is what you should do if you plan to overclock).

As with my MSI 460s, they are at 78 degrees at max load, 890 Mhz, 1.087v, which while I am happy with, I hardly believe they would 'flake out' if set any higher. If you mean that your GTX 480 would flake out, then yes it would because thats not a very efficient or overclock friendly card in the first place.

Can any of the current Nvidia cards even be clocked as high as ATIs on air? No they cant.

Example, all 5870's apart from specialist brands like Asus and MSI have their overclocks limited to 900Mhz which is a measly 50Mhz over the stock clocks.

You want to know the easiest solution to this? Simply buy either the Asus or MSI version if you want to overclock them. Its not that difficult.

You can see me often blaming cards that took off the voltage tweaking altogether, and even ones that come with poor cooling, but individual brands of cards are not to blame for the actual GPU company. If you do want to overclock, buy a card from an AIB that supports overclocking. That really is the best thing to do.

 

[Jokester]

but to blame one company and excuse the other is just ..... well ..... soooo Raven!

Well I guess ultimately, it means ATI's vendors can sell pre-overclocked cards for inflated prices because typical users are unable to get round the soft limit.