Why does ATI limit overclocks and Nvidia do not.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 19:34

Can someone please explain why ATI very much limit the overclock potential of their cards via the bios, and why does Nvidia not hold back the overclocking potential on their cards via the bios?

Example, all 5870's apart from specialist brands like Asus and MSI have their overclocks limited to 900Mhz which is a measly 50Mhz over the stock clocks.

5850's are worse, these great clocking cards are limited to 775 core through the bios.

Now I know of no recent Nvidia cards that limit overclocks to such low clocks, if there is please point them out.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 19:45

craig3000 said:
Not a specialist on the subject but 5850's aren't locked from going over 775?? I used the MSI tool to get over it on a normal HIS 5850 or do you mean limited through CCC? Either way they probably don't want you busting up your card sounds reasonable to me tbh and if you are an uber overclocker than needs 1GHz go out and buy the Asus or MSI?

Yes you can use third party software to bypass the limit but the limit is still set through the bios, and that's your max clock you can set through CCC overdrive. Why have such low overclocks set, Nvidia do not feel the need to set limits and force you to bypass them with third party apps.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 19:55

I have seen 460's do 900Mhz with the max voltage available to them via afterburner and that's a massive overclock, of course if you want to go higher then a mod or bios flash will be required as with any extreme overclocking. If there is a voltage limit, it's for cautionary measures only IMO.

kylew said:
Wow, really raven? Does it really matter? Surely you know anyone who wants to do some mildly serious overclocking will chose to use MSI Afterburner anyway?

Just curious that's all, I was forced to flash my sapphire with an Asus bios to clock past 900Mhz, at the time using the " unofficial clocking method " would cause constant full clocks even when idle so that was no good for me, just seems tight by ATI to limit at all, yet nvidia see no need to limit any overclocking potential.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:02

bhavv said:
So its ok for Nvidia and not for ATI then? Why?

Going from 0.975v > 1.087v > 1.212v is hardly 'extreme overclocking'.

It's enough to get you some serous clocks unlike the extra 50Mhz you're limited to with a standard 5870.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:09

How do Nvidia limit overclocks? you have to draw the line at max voltage requirements some where, as said you have well enough leeway with Nvidia volts to get a massive overclock, what would you need any more volts for that would probably flake out the core anyway, point is ATI limit overclocking drastically through the bios and Nvidia do not, for what reason?

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:20

Jayster said:
Why compare two cards why not compare the whole line up? Also to your question im pretty sure they dont want people to blow the arse out of their card with an included oc'ing tool

Feel free to compare if you want but I believe all the mid/highend stand ATI cards are limited in the bios to how far you can clock, usually you can have a free 50Mhz that would be on the 5770/5850/5870. From all the nvidia based forums, the 460/465/470/480 have a max limit that you would not realistically expect to achieve through standard air or watercooling.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:34

bhavv said:
The stock limit on the 5770 is 960 Mhz. The cards still barely reach 70 degrees when clocked to that much.

Yeah they come stock at 850Mhz so an extra 110, I wouldn't expect them to generate much more heat with a 960 core.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:46

drunkenmaster said:
The overdrive limit is just that, what their driver will allow as a "safe" overclock that will not void your warranty. My 5850, locked in overdrive to 775, runs along happily at 1050Mhz, because there is no lock in the bios to prevent overclocking fullstop.

Open up your cards bios in http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1770/TechPowerUp_Radeon_Bios_Editor_v1.25.html and see what clocks your card is limited to. Regarding warranty, lets face it they will never know if the card has been clocked or not, even if it was true why do nvidia not limit overclocks.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 20:54

Jibber55 said:
As Drunken has mentioned, it is funny that this was never worth discussion when you owned an ATI card!

Actually I do believe I made a thread or reference to it way back when. I was kind of miffed at having to potentially void my warranty to be able to overclock my 5870 past the measly 50Mhz limit.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 22:02

Sorry mate, you're wrong, I like the simplicity of doing an overclock and having powerplay work and associated things, with overclock tool that is not possible, like I said I don't care if I overclock either card because they are not going to know it's been overclocked anyway, arguing that ATI limit clocks for warranty purpose is just silly. Flashing the bios can void the warranty if they get it working and they check it. It seems you need to do a bit more research as you claimed the overclock limit is through the drivers when it is in fact through the bios.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 22:13

I think anyone paying good money for an enthusiast card like the 5850 and above will know how to clock it lol. To have ATI dictate how far I can clock my card is rather lame TBH.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 22:31

Final8y said:
ATI are not, its the partners who set the OC limit.

Not true, I got a sapphire reference on launch day, the bios is installed by ATI, it's up the AIB to update the bios for cards that are not reference or are pre-overclocked models, reference cards come with the vendor labeled ATI when you check the bios, if the bios has been updated, the vendor in the bios will usually carry the AIB's name. On launch sapphire, powercolor, and the rest have the same bios because it comes directly from ATI. What, you think ATI test the cards with no bios and then send them out for the AIB's to install their own bios, all reference cards have ATI set bios installed. Exception are MSI and Asus who sell their cards with higher clock limits and guess what? their name is in the bios.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 23:30

A vendor that lets you clock your card by 50Mhz compared to a vendor that lets you clock your card by 200Mhz, seem like a fairly legit issue to me, yes you own an ATI card but that is no reason to jump all over threads that might be critical of your precious card manufacturer.

@ Phoenixdancer

I thought you would have learned your lesson from last time...no?

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 23:43

^^ This is the thing, it's a genuine issue being highlighted yet certain members feel it's their duty to disrupt the thread as much as possible because the subject matter offends them so they try to force a lock, hopefully the mods will see through it.

RavenXXX2 · 26 Aug 2010 at 23:55

JeffyB said:
I don't know why, it would be nice if the CCC limits were a little higher but for a novice its a nice safety net and still allows enough to give a taste and feel like you've got something for free as it were. Enthusiasts will always use a decent third party program to overclock anyway, im guessing the nvidia users are using MSIA and dont overclock with the nvidia control panel anyway?

Bergkamp said:
I don't think it's a genuine issue. It's not a practicality issue and it's not a warranty issue, so what exactly is the point?

see below, for people that overclock it can be an issue.

You still don't get it, you can't overclock a 5850/5870 past CCC/bios limits without enabling a hack in MSI afterburner, it's not in the standard software because it is regarded as not being 100% stable, using the hack you will then need to set 2D and 3D profiles in afterburneer if you don't want to run at full speed clocks all the time, doing this can also cause issues with flash playback and can cause BSOD, none of this is required with a Nvidia card.

RavenXXX2 · 27 Aug 2010 at 00:05

I have lost count the amount of times I have aided members on here on how to use the unofficial overclocking method in afterburner, and all because they can only get 50Mhz extra performance out of their cards.

RavenXXX2 · 27 Aug 2010 at 00:59

@ Raz You can't see an issue because you have never had the issue in the first place, so troll elsewhere.

@ jigger, I'm just highlighting the fact you have to go through hoops to overclock an ATI card, not so with Nvidia, is that so hard to comprehend?

RavenXXX2 · 27 Aug 2010 at 01:04

Just keep out my threads and less of the personal attacks as they show you to be the weaker person, Ignore you go.

RavenXXX2 · 27 Aug 2010 at 01:18

Obviously a number of people are not informed when they keep posting about how to bypass the overclock limits in CCC, this is a discussion forum, I started a genuine thread on a matter than can effect people overclocking, all I see is ATI owners trashing the thread or others having a go because life is hard for them, instead of giving relevant reasons why I can overclock my Nvidia card to the limits and not my £300 5870 enthusiasts card out of the box.

RavenXXX2 · 27 Aug 2010 at 01:40

jigger said:
This thread makes it look like you cant take a 5000 card past a 50Mhz overclock so you could be infact a source of misinformation yourself.

If were not for third party software and enabling a hack that may cause stability problems, you couldn't get past that 50Mhz barrier, the other option is to flash the cards bios voiding the warranty, see where I'm going with this?